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	<title>GNOLLS.ORG - Topic: Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[Home of J. Stanton, author of The Gnoll Credo]]></description>
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        	<title>J. Stanton on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/page-2/#p6524</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>L Olsen:</p>
<p>TPM is indeed a good overview of <em>all</em> the aspects of Paleo.  The diet gets the most press, but the other aspects are also very important for good health.</p>
<p>If you&#039;re looking for more detail on the science behind the Paleo dietary recommendations, and on the variants thereof, you&#039;ll want to read something like <a href="/3284/book-review-perfect-health-diet-scribner-edition-december-2012/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Perfect Health Diet</a>.</p>
<p>It&#039;s not really possible to eat Paleo and still be a strict vegetarian, though it is quite possible to eat a grain-free vegetarian diet.  However, if by "vegetarian" you actually mean "pescetarian", which many people do, a fish and shellfish-based Paleo diet is quite doable and very healthy!  (Though it can get expensive...)</p>
<p>JS</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Thu, 12 Dec 2013 12:22:27 -0800</pubDate>
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        	<title>L Olsen on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/page-2/#p6521</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>I've been considering looking into Paleo, but haven't yet. This book seems like a great place to start. Can you be a vegetarian and eat the Paleo diet?</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Wed, 11 Dec 2013 07:36:16 -0800</pubDate>
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        	<title>Dave on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6261</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>@ John,  </p>
<p>Thanks for addressing my comments.</p>
<p>Wrt gathering, I don't consider this a 'vegetarian' activity at all.  Anyone who has practiced Euell Gibbons-style gathering could potentially find a wealth of plant and animal foods in the wild, no hunting required.  I must admit, though, to only have read his book <i>Stalking the Blue-Eyed Scallop</i>.  My actual attempts at gathering coastal sea animals in a somewhat polluted area were actually disappointing.  All the grass-fed beef in the world won't mean squat if the oceans die.</p>
<p>Gathering insects and larvae is still commonly practiced in parts of the world.  Of course, I don't think insects or shellfish are allowed by Mosaic Law.  I could be wrong.  😉</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Wed, 16 Oct 2013 06:24:53 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>Asclepius on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6255</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>Hi J, I&#039;m with you on <a href="http://suppversity.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Suppversity</a> - it is a great resource.  I&#039;ve not heard of <a href="http://ergo-log.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ergo-log</a> or <a href="http://healthydietsandscience.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Healthy Diets and Science</a> before....looks like I have a busy few days of reading ahead!</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>A</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Wed, 16 Oct 2013 04:50:13 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>J. Stanton on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6251</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
        	<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6251</guid>
        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>RSR, Dave, Beowulf:</p>
<p>Since John has shown up and it&#039;s his book, I&#039;ll defer to him.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>neal:</p>
<p>I wasn&#039;t impressed with Lieberman&#039;s criticism either.  The current system of industrial agriculture is in no way sustainable: we&#039;re rapidly using up fossil fuels, fossil water (underground aquifers), fossil soil (topsoil depletion at ~1-2% annually), ocean fish, etc., etc.  In contrast, ruminants grazing on grass is strongly carbon-negative and restores the soil when managed correctly.</p>
<p>And Wrangham&#039;s work appears to be just an elaborate ruse to justify his own vegetarianism: I&#039;m not impressed by his scholarship, as it depends on a <em>very</em> selective presentation of both the evidence and the existing literature (with which he cannot fail to be familiar).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Gabby:</p>
<p>It&#039;s a solid overview.  Best of luck...stop by anytime.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Asclepius:</p>
<p>In a world with <a href="http://suppversity.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Suppversity</a>, <a href="http://ergo-log.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ergo-log</a>, and <a href="http://healthydietsandscience.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Healthy Diets and Science</a> (to name a few), I personally don&#039;t have the patience to wade through that sort of posturing to find whatever nuggets of wisdom might be present.  </p>
<p> </p>
<p>John: </p>
<p>Thanks for dropping in and answering questions!  I hope TPM does so well that they make you write more books 😀</p>
<p> </p>
<p>George Henderson:</p>
<p>The type and amount of starch in ancestral diets is still a subject of great debate, as well as great variation depending on one&#039;s ancestry -- and is an entire topic in itself!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>JS</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Wed, 16 Oct 2013 04:38:54 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>George Henderson on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6250</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>John:</p>
<p>Anyone can go gather a few plants in the wild: but there are many habitats where doing this will leave you plenty of fibre and so on, but without much carbohydrate. Consider my Hibernian ancestors; before the advent of turnip, oat, and potato what where their starchy staples? Consider the Moa Hunter culture of New Zealand (early Maori) before the importation of kumara. The only starch available in much quantity (common to both groups) was the rather unsafe and not particularly energy-dense one of bracken root, so far as I know.</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Tue, 15 Oct 2013 12:09:29 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>John Durant on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6248</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>RESISTANT STARCH RULES:</p>
<p>Hahaha...thanks, I'm sure! (Also, my chapter on gorilla diets mentions their use of resistant starch with positive results.)</p>
<p>DAVE:</p>
<p>The chapter on the Mosaic Law is really about the importance of two forms of culture: ideas and microbes (bacterial culture). Infectious disease (not diet) was the single greatest health threat of the Agricultural Age so it was necessary to address it. Close readers will notice that my discussion of these two forms of culture parallel Michael Pollan's discussion of culture in his section on Fermentation in Cooked. Almost every time that Agriculture Age traditions are mentioned later in the book, they pertain to infectious disease.</p>
<p>BEOWULF: Anyone can go gather a few plants in the wild -- we thought about it, but it's not that interesting. What's more interesting is the psychology of a pure "gatherer" strategy (i.e., vegetarianism). The food movement to date has been heavily influenced by this mindset and it's essential to understanding both the strengths and weaknesses of the existing food movement...and how paleo can compliment it.</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:47:38 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>Asclepius on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6246</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
        	<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6246</guid>
        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>I have to say I like Alan Aragon – his research review contains some excellent analysis, but his audience arguably has more specialist goals than Joe Average who just wants to be fit and healthy, and hence Aragon advocates a more complex approach. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Overall it is fantastic the effort that Christina Warriner put in to simply agree with the paleo (v2.0/post 2010) philosophy.  <img class="spSmiley" style="margin:0" class="sfsmiley" src="/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif" alt="Wink" /></p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Mon, 14 Oct 2013 04:17:57 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>Gabby on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6244</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>Great review, have put it on my list of must reads. I have recently made a lifestyle change - getting into exercise, eating well and looking after my body. Many friends have talked to me about the Paleo diet - think this book will be a good read about it. </p>
<p><a href="http://blog.mintfit.co.nz/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://blog.mintfit.co.nz/</a></p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Sun, 13 Oct 2013 15:12:59 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>neal matheson on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6243</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>Obviously I meant criticism.<br />
I also await wrangham's take on modern Paleo with baited breath, I suspect it will be along the familiar lines of they ate grains, we can't sustain 55 million billion people on cow all that meat can't be good for you, blah blah blah lactose balh blah blah neanderthal calculus blah....</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Sun, 13 Oct 2013 00:37:38 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>neal matheson on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6242</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
        	<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6242</guid>
        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>"Paleo is stupid…but you should do exactly what they recommend anyway.”  Seriously: it took a professor of EXERCISE PHYSIOLOGY (Cordain) to discover that evolutionary discordance is a health problem?  The entire anthropology community ought to be embarrassed as hell and racing to catch up: instead, Warinner smugly discounts Paleo with trivially false arguments just because she didn't think of it herself."</p>
<p>superb! I notice that Mr Marathon liberman made an equally weak cticism of "paleo diets" recently.</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Sun, 13 Oct 2013 00:28:46 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>Beowulf on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6241</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>Edit:  Cities nowadays rely heavily on fossil fuels for transport.  Large cities in the past obviously didn't have coal-powered steam engines or gasoline-powered trucks.  They did, however, still usually do an amazingly efficient job of deforesting their surrounding lands and committing cultural suicide as a result.</p>
<p>It's hard to envision moving resources into a large, modern city without heavy reliance on fossil fuels without having the majority of the population decline into what would be considered by our standards a poor and toilsome existence.</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:40:07 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>Beowulf on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6240</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>Timely review since I just finished my copy from the library.  And I think it will remain a library read and not earn a spot on my shelf anytime soon.  Overall I like the whole "average guy goes paleo" style, but it didn't really have much to offer someone who's reasonably well-read in the paleosphere.</p>
<p>Part 1:</p>
<p>Know Thy Species:  Good writing and easy to understand message.  I wonder how many people are feeding their cats/dogs a well-balanced, raw meat diet without giving any consideration to OUR species needs?</p>
<p>Rise and Fall:  Humorous and easy to understand message with memorable quotes.  My favorite:  "Archaeologist are sadistic people who derive pleasure from forcing their grad students to dig a giant hole with a tiny paintbrush."</p>
<p>Moses the Microbiologist:  On the one hand I was completely fascinated with this section since it was a memorable interpretation of a very boring set of Biblical books, but realistically it really didn't fit the style of the previous chapters.  Furthermore, trying to encapsulate everything about the changes agriculture brought to the people that practiced it simply by going over Jewish Law seems too narrowly focused.</p>
<p>Homo Invictus:  I think he did a good job of illustrating just how much humans have pushed the bounds of their environment in just the past hundred years or so and the potential consequences/learning experiences of this exploration.</p>
<p>Biohackers:  Nice, concise COCI debunk near the end of the chapter.</p>
<p>Part 2:</p>
<p>This whole section was pretty straight-forward.  I think his explanations and reasons for doing these various dietary and lifestyle habits will resonate with most readers.  </p>
<p>Part 3:</p>
<p>Things just kinda went off the rails here.  The Hunter chapter was useful enough, but the Gathering chapter just fell off a cliff.  In the Hunter chapter, he discussed hunting and actually hunted.  In the Gathering chapter he went off on vegetarianism and, well, let's just say I kept waiting for him to actually GATHER something.  Really a missed opportunity to dispel the paleo = loads of meat and no veggies myth.</p>
<p>The last chapter, Habitats Old and New, had me fuming a bit.  This guy really needs to do some serious reading of Jared Diamond and get past the cornucopian mindset that everything can be made better just by little steps in the right direction.  Collectively we are trashing our environment well beyond a sustainable point.  Large cities are not sustainable because by their very nature they rely on inexpensive fossil fuels to move all of those resources in (in other words, no oil/coal/natural gas = starving people).  The ONLY sustainable lifestyle this planet has ever known is the hunter-gatherer lifestyle.  He makes the mistake that Daniel Quinn so elegantly points out in Ishmal and his other works:  "We are not humanity."  When a group of people in the middle east decided to start toiling in the soil all day, most of the remainder of humanity went right ahead with their spearing and picking lifestyle.</p>
<p>That being said, I think the book is good enough to be a basic primer and hopefully an inspiration for the average person to give paleo a shot.  It's just not going to pass muster on some things with a more well-read crowd.</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:33:24 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>Dave on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6239</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>“By rejecting nutrient-dense herder diets in favor of a few stable cereal grains, the conventional advice to “eat low fat” actually means “Eat like a poor, malnourished farmer”…It’s a meal fit for a serf, sold for a princely sum to slavish Whole Foods shoppers.” </p>
</blockquote>
<p>I must admit, though, I love this statement by Durant.</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Sat, 12 Oct 2013 08:41:28 -0700</pubDate>
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        	<title>Dave on Book Review: "The Paleo Manifesto," by John Durant</title>
        	<link>http://www.gnolls.org/forums/comment-threads/book-review-the-paleo-manifesto-by-john-durant/#p6237</link>
        	<category>Comment Threads</category>
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        	        	<description><![CDATA[<p>Hi J,</p>
<p>I will have to take your word for it.  While I appreciate the fact that the "Mosaic Law" has significant historical, cultural, and literary importance to modern humans, I find it difficult to accept anecdotal, unproveable reports of events that transpired 3000 years ago as proof of anything (except Durant's desire to target certain audiences in the United States).  Careful examination of the text itself shows multiple unknown authors, redactions, and contradictions (and even outright lies).  If anything, the authors of the OT were perfect examples of Empire Culture.  (I am reminded of Daniel Quinn's take on the Genesis myths.)</p>
<p>If Durant wanted to give examples of successful and <i>sustainable</i> cultures, I'm sure he could have borrowed and idea or two from Jared Diamond.  As Richard Adrian Reese points out, these Bronze Age agriculturalists denuded the fertile crescent with 'organic' farming and pastoralism.  They were successful at the expense of their land base.</p>
<p>Does Durant mention Joel Salatin or Allan Savory?  Their work in the here and now is far more inspirational than unscientific anecdotes of an ancient civilization.</p>
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        	        	<pubDate>Sat, 12 Oct 2013 07:17:46 -0700</pubDate>
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