Stanton: Fish vs. methylmercury... fish contains selenium, which helps adult human bodies detox from mercury. (We are better at this than kids are, which is one reason mercury is so dangerous for them.) If it were me and I were pescetarian, I would still skip the major predator fish like swordfish and shark, but something like salmon ought to be safe enough.

I've seen that study, and the Chris Kresser article based on it.

Note that the study is:

1. A rat study

2. It only checked the rats for gross developmental deformity (excessively low weight, hind-limb crossing)

The doses required to cause neural and cognitive damage in humans are (AFAIK) orders of magnitude smaller than the doses required to cause gross developmental deformity in humans: note that nowhere in the annals of "Minamata disease" (methylmercury poisoning) is growth impairment noted as an effect.

So I'm suspicious that selenium is or can be totally protective of methylmercury poisoning...especially in children and fetuses.

JS

What do you think about the research suggesting that fish with more selenium than mercury is safe? (As is the case with non-predatory ocean fish)

Paper here: http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/oceanography/courses_html/OCN331/Mercury3.pdf

Follow the link Fmgd gave.  

And remember: it is axiomatic that you have to eat something.  If you stop eating meat or eggs because you're worried about antibiotics or hormones, you'll have to eat something else instead -- something made of nutritionally empty, pesticide-drenched GMO corn, soy, or wheat.  

Eggs, for example, are so packed with nutrition that even the worst factory eggs are better than not eating eggs at all!  Same with most paleo foods: CAFO beef is better than not eating meat, conventional cabbage is better than not eating vegetables, etc.

That being said, if you're pescetarian, you really do have to watch out for methylmercury content -- and eating wild ocean fish doesn't help.  Also, even the cheapest China-farmed fish, like tilapia, is more expensive than beef, pork, or chicken...

However, if you're adamant about remaining pescetarian, canned mackerel, sardines, etc. will help stretch your budget, as well as provide you lots of healthy omega-3 fat.  If you have the money to spare, pastured eggs are the first thing I'd upgrade from standard industrial supermarket food.

Dave:

Exactly.  CAFO eggs are better than not eating eggs.

JS

I just got finished with a fascinating book, Unlearn, Rewild, by Miles Olson. This man and his 'tribe' of modern primitives lives pretty close to a 'paleolithic' lifestyle. Our paleolithic ancestors did not rely on domesticated animals and plants for food. Miles describes a lifestyle that is intimately associated with the land one lives on. Not once did he mention the need for pastured eggs, raw milk, or grass fed beef. He does recommend eating insects and wild game. He also mentions learning about local plants that can be useful, too.

So, what is 'paleo'? Is it just another marketing term to get consumers to buy more expensive and presumeably healthier food? Perhaps, instead of striving for some ideal presented by the gurus of the moment, one can simply start from the basics. Weston A Price concluded that refined sugars and white flour (and all the products made from them) caused malnutrition and physical degeneration. So, while one may not be able to afford expensive eggs or dairy, one can eliminate the worst offenders of "the displacing foods of modern commerce" from one's diet. Start with the basics and go from there. If that means one has to eat CAFO eggs and dairy for the time being, just accept that it is a stage in a process of gradual improvement.

Best of luck to you in your journey!

Thank you for sharing that...and yes, it absolutely fits into the discussion! 

"Larger game was also chased in this manner using a series of stone fences and relay runners strategically positioned"...that confirms what I've read from other sources, which is that Native Americans didn't practice straight all-day persistence hunting: they herded wild animals into natural terrain features, usually (as you said) with teams of runners, and constructed very long and elaborate fences and corrals where the terrain didn't provide them.

I review two books on the subject in this article ("Survival by Hunting" and "Imagining Head-Smashed-In"), and I'm very interested in your opinion if you choose to read them.

That's interesting that you were able to catch small animals with a few minutes of sprinting and the smarts to keep them away from their burrows!  Having grown up in suburbs, I never had those types of opportunities...though unlike the city kids, I at least got to climb trees, scramble down ravines, etc.

I do note, however, that none of these activities qualifies as "persistence hunting", let alone long-distance steady-state cardio.

Dave:

It's possible to get thin by losing muscle mass...and from the studies I've read, most diets that aren't "high protein" result in significant loss of muscle mass as well as fat mass.  As mentioned above, our protein requirements don't decrease just because we're eating less food, so staying at 15% protein when dieting is likely to leave us protein-deficient and losing lean mass.

Additionally, endurance exercise is catabolic, and requires a higher protein intake to preserve muscle mass than even strength training!

Result: vegan diet + jogging = skinny-fat.

neal:

Thank you for the links!  The exercise article seems to agree with Mark Sisson's approach: lots of walking around and occasional sprints or heavy lifting, as opposed to "cardio".  And I agree that examples from agriculturalists aren't relevant to our evolutionary context, either.

Older but possibly relevant; http://spearthroweruk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/how-they-actually-exercise.html

With respects to the article, I have noticed a difference in body composition compared to the time I attempted veganism and my current HFLC Way of Eating. I did get thin eating vegan (mostly vegan, to be honest) since I didn't consume much high quality protein. I avoided dairy and eggs, and I used lots of wheat flour, potatoes, legumes, and vegan meat substitutes. (I ate fruits and vegetables, too, but they didn't supply much in the way of energy.) It did me no favors in the strength department. These days, though, I am both thin and strong on a diet that conventional wisdom says will make me fat and sick.

Larger game was also chased in this manner using a series of stone fences and relay runners strategically positioned. Sometimes ending at a cliff the exhausted animals would dive over and die at the bottom.

Sorry if this doesn't fit the discussion...