February 22, 2010
Cholesterol levels likely don't mean what your doctor or the test results say they mean. For instance, your test will have a big black "H" next to it if your TC is greater than 200 - but minimum mortality for men is at a TC of 220-260, and for women over age 60, higher TC is associated with longer life, with no apparent upper limit. Furthermore, the most predictive number from a standard "cholesterol test" is TG/HDL (lower is better). There's lots more for you to read in these two comments:
Meanwhile, I note that the best way to lower TG is to eat fewer carbs, and the best way to raise HDL is to eat more saturated fat!
I haven't had time to reply to everyone, but let me repeat my BOLD-FACED WARNING:
1. The purpose of this article is to address one very specific topic: the claim that “meat rots in your colon”. Making the general case for veg*anism vs. omnivory is not only a non sequitur, it's beyond the scope of one article — and most certainly beyond the scope of a comment.
2. Please read, at the very least, my responses to comments before asking a question (or making a statement). I have previously answered many of these questions: asking them again says, to me, that you're not interested in productive dialogue and are just spouting off.
Yes, there are a lot of comments! Deal with it.
I'm sorry to say, but while much of the science is true here, your conclusions are not based in fact. Contrary to what some commenters on here have put, vegans are not products of low self esteem, self haters, or even sick. By and large, they are the healthiest people on the planet, followed by vegetarians. This is ev widened by the fact that 4 of the 5 blue zones on this planet are vegan and vegetarian, and the 5th has a very low incidence of animal products. Regardless, veganism is not about diet. You are referring to "plant based diets." Veganism is about refraining from harming that which has no need to be harmed. There are no scientific, ethical, moral, or even logical arguments that support not being a vegan, and I challenge you to raise one.
As far as the 'science' behind your diet claims, I can speak as an expert on that as well. I am a gastroenterologist of 25 years. I would love to go point by point, but I'm sure you have figured out for yourself there is much wrong with your presentation. As far as the rest, ask away.
theres a contraction in nearly every paragraph of this article.
So how do Robert the gastroenterologist of 25 years and William C. Roberts, MD., renowned cardiologist from Texas, explain the fact that meat is completely digested by the enzymes our own bodies produce while plants must be predigested by bacteria in our colon in order to be only partially absorbed by us? This fact by itself indicates that meat is meant to be our primary form of nutrition.
in regards to "meat rotting in the colon", I had read some time back on a forum where Owsley "The Bear" Stanley had told a story about a soldier years and years ago that had a stomach wound and to keep the soldier alive then dropped some food, specifically meat into the open hole. The soldiers witnessed the meat turn into liquid in the stomach as it passed into the intestines. I don't know if this story is true, but its what I read. I would think with our technology today, that doctors would know this and prove this rather easily. A stomach with the right about of hydrochloric acid should be able to do this - its common sense.
What debunks this article is I had 2 beefburgers 2 days ago. I have eaten 2 breakfasts, two lunches and two main meals since then. This morning I had a stomach ache, a severe one and I suffered from 6am until 9.30am
This ended shortly after I vomited the undigested burgers from 2 days ago. Literally in the state they were after chewing and swallowing.
So these burgers were not digesting and therefore probably started to rot and this caused my body to reject them.
The burps I had this morning all tasted and smelled like burgers.
A few years ago I threw up a pickled onion a week after ate it. It had gone dark brown from the original white, so here is another debunk of this article.
Wow, if your stories are true, you are really not normal. Please consult a doctor as soon as possible.
So appreciate this post. I've been overwhelmed and torn between meat vs. no meat, all because I've hard the same, old story: Meat rots in your colon, etc. etc. Thanks for clearing that up with some sound backing.
I like to read articles of opposing points of view because I am eager to learn from a contrarian position to mine. I want to see if there is valid information or logic that I may have been missing. In that light I appreciate this article, although I disagree with it's assertion that humans should be eating animal-based foods.
I agree we are omnivores, which ensure our survival. However, I also agree that the human anatomical structure as well as evidence-based nutritional studies point out that we are primarily evolved or designed to be frugivores or herbivores.
However, the question of our eating classification pales in comparison to what really matters. The main question we should ask ourselves is what we should eat to enjoy a long healthy life.
There are thousands of professional peer-reviewed evidence-based nutritional and health studies done every year. These studies show overwhelmingly that eating a plant-based diet supports a long healthy life. Eating animal products leads to disease and malfunction in the human body.
I found a website that summarizes many of these studies in short videos, and shows their titles and reference numbers, which is http://www.nutritionfacts.org. The information on that website is free, and includes a search box if you have a specific interest.
Also, according to an oncologist I know, there are professional studies on people with cancer who made dietary changes after their diagnosis to reduce animal food intake. Their dietary change lead to substantially higher survival rates. These studies are not yet publically available since they are very long, 15 to 20 years. However, there are animal studies publically available now that show the same results.
Rotting and fermentation of any foods in our digestive system is usually the result of improper food combining or timing. Some foods are incompatible in that they require a different digestive environment (pH and enzymes) from each other (e.g. animal protein and plant starches). Also, some foods digest fast (fruit) while others digest slow (meat, dairy, seeds). Eating all types of foods all together in one meal, which is how we were all raised), is going to cause some food to get trapped in the stomach and ferment, while causing other foods to pass from the stomach too soon which results in putrefaction, i.e. rotting, further down the digestive tract. You can Google "food combining" to learn more about that. I prefer to think of it as "food separating", lol.
I hope this information helps.
Also, to clear up any possible confusion about vitamins B12 and D ...
Vitamin B12 is essential for human health. It comes from a bacteria found in soil and water. Consuming plants or water will therefore provide the needed B12 in a human's or animal's diet.
However, plants for human consumption are super cleansed and drinking water is chlorinated. These processes destroy the B12. Humans who eat animal products may get adequate B12 because the animals have consumed plants or water that has not been super cleansed or chlorinated and the B12 has absorbed into their tissue.
Therefore humans who avoid animal foods need to take a B12 supplement once or twice a week, unless they live off the land and eat dirty food like our ancestors! This is not due to a deficiency in a plant-based diet, it is due to the manner in which our modern agribusinesses and cities treat plant-foods and water targeted for human consumption.
Vitamin D is a hormone we make naturally in our body after sun exposure to the oils in our skin. However, if we wash our skin sooner than about 18 hours the oils are removed and absorption into our blood is reduced or eliminated. In ancient times this was not a problem, but in modern times a timely shower is considered essential!
Vitamin D is not found in plant foods except for mushrooms. Fish (a very polluted food) contains Vitamin D, and eggs have a small amount as well. Some animal foods (e.g. milk) and some plant-based foods (e.g. nut milks) have Vitamin D added as a supplement.
I believe that everyone should supplement Vitamin D in some way. I prefer a capsule rather than eat animal foods or processed plant foods.
Oh, I just thought of one more item. Below is a link to a video about an hour long that presents a summary of the top reasons that Americans die (from the CDC) and evidence-based information for how to not die that way!
Another resource is a book written by the presenter in the above video, Dr. Greger, called "How Not to Die".
I found this stream of information when I became curious about how my body is digesting a primarily meat diet (+small amount vegetables, and raw milk) while producing very little waste. The original article by J.Stanton makes perfect sense to me, and confirms my belief that my body is using all of the meat I eat as nourishment. What little stool my produces is odorless & infrequent. So thanks for the information, J.
To prove your theory about meat go into bath room with meet eater and get the smell from the feces. You can easily distinguish it from vegetarian and it really stinks, because it is rotten.
I have really enjoyed this forum comment section, and found a lot of the information helpful. i started looking more into the vegan route a while ago, small ethical reasons but most for health, more vegetables, fruit and grains. another reason was cost. earning a low income while being a student i dont have much in terms of money, and costs everywhere are calculated closely, which lead me to eat rice/ potatoes, mainly white, baked. and some sweet potatoes, but i greatly enjoy salmon fish. and shellfish like clams and mussesl, and wanted to mix the diet up in that way, would you reccomend from your point eating a majority of food from startch tubers, such as potatoes, sweet potatoes, and rice. rice i have typically for breakfast. with fruit. lunch is 600g potatoes, mixed with beans and some veg, and mussels. dinner is salmon with fried vegetables. i also include flax and chia seeds as snacks, as well as nuts. im not sure if its the best place to ask, and know you support a majority fat diet, but its something i cant unfortunately afford currently. so just wandered what your takes on this were.
I've been looking for this information. Thank you
Yea nar. Im a vegan who is highly active who has always tried to fuel with a healthy diet. Drastically reducing processed foods helped. But going vegan; increased energy & recovery time, reduced body pain. Iv read lots of paleo info and plant based diet info. Iv heard that osteoporosis is highest in dairy consuming countries. and colon cancer highest in meat eating countries. After being clean and experiencing the cleanliness of my vehicle I will never go back. My body odor is a lot less rank these days too; factors backed by experience(and evidence from very intelligent people). A big fat stake and eggs on toast "yuck"; give me a fruit salad with nuts, and seeds any day. Plus I like animals why should we exploit them so major food companies gain wealth and control of the world while millions die of starvation. F**k the system, lets feed the starving children grains instead of giving it to cows so fast food companies can get richer. Vegetarian propaganda, haha, this page is propaganda in the first degree. How many meat eaters hunt, kill and butcher their own food any way? A little bit of meat could provide essential nutrients. But from a logical point of view a plant based diet is much more efficient and nutrient dense. Peace out.
I read an article on here a while back about how when you started a vegan diet at first you felt great, but then after a while you started feeling awful. Tired, hair falling out, etc. Do you have a link to that article?
"And the fact remains that eating six or seven raw red beans will most likely put you in the hospital, whereas raw meat from all animals is absolutely edible in any quantity."
This is one of the most ridiculous, stupid and insane things I've ever read.
You can die from drinking too much water, but.. You can eat raw meat in any quantity? HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh my god. Such stupidity makes virtually everything else you mentioned super questionable. If you could get that so incredibly wrong and be so incredibly biased, what else are you so incredibly wrong and biased about?
BTW. There sure are a lot of vegan athletes, body builders and world class champions in various sports all over the world. Also.. Geniuses like Tesla and Einstein, they must have all had it wrong! You though.. You've got it figured out, we can eat raw meat in any quantity! Hahahahahaha. Wow.. Who could ever take you seriously after such a comment?
Also there are no native cultures that survive off of JUST meat, you pointed out so many false illogical irrational things, it would take hours to correct them all. Thanks for the propaganda! I'm sure you mislead a lot of people.
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