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Fat And Glycemic Index: The Myth Of "Complex Carbohydrates"
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September 15, 2011
1:28 pm
PrimalNut
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The debate going on about calories vs. fat is ridiculous.

Here is what matters: The nutrient content of the FAT vs. amount of calories must be in balance.
Fat adds extra calories but it's dense in fat soluble vitamins. If you eat tons of feedlot fat you're going to end up with a calorie/nutrient imbalance and will gain weight.
Make sure the fat you eat isn't from a seed eating animal (bird), or feedlot meat, but instead from a pastured or wild red meat animal.

I've been on a primal diet for the last 1.5 years and I'm drinking 2 gallons of RAW milk a week on top of chunks of kidney fat, butter, lard and fatty meat especially lots of pork. I also consume a TON of fruit during summer months (farmers market) and my calorie intake is probably around 2500-3500 a day. The raw milk alone is about 1000 calories a day alone.

Because of the source of food I select (high nutrient) I have not gained an ounce of weight, despite the fact that I combine fruits and pure fat.
And I'm not one that moves a lot, all I do is walk my dog. I also lost 20 lbs of weight while literally binging on fat, protein and fruit for over a year and have gained some really nice muscle tone.

It takes calories to process nutrients. Balance is what counts.

September 15, 2011
2:56 pm
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
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You're absolutely right PrimalNut! Balance is the key - first, is understanding. Once you understand you can balance.

I've eaten nothing but real food my whole life, but I had no idea whatsoever that the excess carbohydrate was making me fat! Now I understand that, I can balance my carbohydrate intake against protein and fat.

Functional paleo understands this very well - Primal, also (I capitalised Primal in respect to Sissons' excellent work). So-called "pure" paleo does not. Functional paleo draws us to take a "paleo" appreciation of all the food we eat - we might find eating lentils is perfectly good so long as they are well prepared. While meat and veg exist, there's little need to look eslewhere, but variety is the spice of life ... and I do enjoy a good plate of daal.

I think you're on very much the same lines as me - you eat well, you do all the right things, but you're looking for the next step ... which is enjoyment. You can have that by taking what you have learned, what you know and apply that to real life.

Live life to the full ... and that includes eating "off trail" every now and again.

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

September 15, 2011
11:28 pm
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First-Eater
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PrimalNut, Paul:

As I discuss at length in the satiety article, nutrients are the primary driver of satiety, so losing weight is much more about the nutrient/calorie ratio than about simply eating less calories.  In fact, as we decrease calorie intake, we must be careful to eat more and more nutrient-dense foods...just because you're losing fat doesn't mean you need any less vitamins or minerals.

And yes, I'll have a small helping of daal every now and again.

JS

 

October 10, 2011
3:46 am
Paleo Diet Food List
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[...] not as they either way. Some add-ons can be included in the pan and lady as well so although the archive is where you can lose [...]

October 20, 2011
8:00 pm
Perfect Health Diet
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[...] that adding a little fat to a starch is very effective in lowering its GI. In a post titled “Fat and Glycemic Index: The Myth of Complex Carbohydrates,” JS states [...]

October 23, 2011
1:16 pm
~pjgh » Blog A
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[...] Fat and the Glycemic Index: The Myth of Carbohydrates, J Stanton blows the doors wide open and shows us that cooking, and cooking with fat significantly [...]

December 2, 2011
9:19 pm
the low fat obsessio
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[...] Here is some more interesting reading, with supporting research links challenging carbs, GI and fat entitled, Fat And Glycemic Index: The Myth Of “Complex Carbohydrates [...]

December 13, 2011
3:06 pm
Food Porn (Hot delic
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[...] put it down. White potato is right, and if you're worried about the GL, have a nose at this: Fat And Glycemic Index: The Myth Of “Complex Carbohydrates” - GNOLLS.ORG ... don't eat dairy? Well, this probably isn't for you. Anyway, if we're okay with dairy - butter [...]

December 13, 2011
3:19 pm
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 364
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^ That's me ... pimping out J's article on MDA forums: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread13279-41.html#post651401

Jansson's Temptation - the perfect demonstration of fat and carbohydrate: http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk/2011/12/janssons-temptation.html

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

December 20, 2011
1:52 pm
Molly Ryan-Fisher
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Just discovered your site - delighted! I follow the Perfect Health Diet. Grass fed butter and coconut oil are my friends. I also run (slow paced) mid to long distances. I am curious what you think about ingesting honey (glucose/fructose) while running long. Would it be beneficial to add coconut oil for my muscles uptake the sugar slowly? Or do I want it to be used quickly?

December 20, 2011
4:02 pm
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Molly:

Sports nutrition isn't my strongpoint -- but my experience is that everything takes energy to digest, so if I eat anything at all (which I usually don't) it's simple carbohydrates.  The reason some foods take longer to absorb is because it takes more energy to digest them.

AFAIK the limiting factor in fat metabolism isn't freeing it from your tissues, it's the oxidation process...so I'm not sure eating fat (even MCTs) during exercise will give you any more energy.

It's certainly worth experimenting with: like I said, sports nutrition isn't my strong point, and I could be wrong!

JS

 

January 3, 2012
12:13 am
Joseph Gitchuway
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You, Sir, Have just hit the nail on the head for me. i am a type one Diabetic and being part African -American, got the big 3: Diabetes, High-Blood pressure and High Cholesterol. It has been literally HELL trying to find the right balance, especially since trying to eat low fat would send my blood sugar into the 300s. This requires more insulin and that equals weight. Ironically eating low fat also sent my cholesterol up as well by 50 points. Once i went back to my normal diet of whole milk and olive oils and margarine and all the bad stuff, i no longer craved the Diabetics arch nemesis, Carbs.

YOU have validated me and this article is now going straight to my friends and Doctor....I sense a rumble at the office coming on.

Thank you very much.

January 3, 2012
12:40 am
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First-Eater
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Joseph:

You might also be interested in this article from Paul Jaminet on minimizing hyperglycemia.

May I suggest substituting real butter for the margarine?  It tastes better and it's better for you, being full of good stuff like CLA and butyrate.  Margarine is just seed oil in drag.

I'm glad I can help you in some small way.  T1D is a rough ride.  Stop by anytime.

JS

January 10, 2012
8:18 am
Matthew Green
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One thing worth mentioning. What most people consider 'low-carb' should really be considered 'normal carb' in the grand scheme of human history. What people now consider 'normal carb' should be considered 'high carb', or more accurately 'suicide'.

January 10, 2012
8:37 am
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
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Well put, Matthew. I often call my lower carb eating "low enough" ... low enough to trigger fat burning. Maybe a more positive word should be put to the phrase? Sensible carb? Adequate carb?

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

January 11, 2012
2:23 am
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First-Eater
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Matthew:

Agreed, especially in the form and with the timing we eat them now (i.e. continual infusions throughout the day).

JS

January 26, 2012
10:53 am
Chuckie B.
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Thanks once again, J. Truer words were never spoken. I had the great pleasure to attend a talk by Gary Taubes last year with co presenter Dr. Peter Attia who (being a doctor and having access to all of the cutting edge medical machinery) chronicled his journey from the S.A.D. to a diet where he increased his caloric intake from 3,050 to 4,360 calories a day and his fat intake from 44% of daily calories to 88% of daily calories (interestingly, when he went full ketogenic his protein requirement halved, from 250g/day to 120g/day) and his bodyfat percentage went from 20% to 7.5% while actually increasing his lean body mass slightly and all of his blood panels (VAP testing, of course) and his insulin resistance numbers improved to near perfect levels. I actually kinda wish I had permission to reprint his slides (he was kind enough to email them to me as I had to duck out of the last bit of his lecture to get to work), as, well, the numbers don't lie. I do have one question for you, however: maybe I am reading things wrong but it seems that people are saying that carbohydrate intake is beneficial for stamina in endurance exercise, please tell me that I am reading that wrong, as I use the same metric as you, and think it highly unlikely that our forebearers would have survived had their ability to chase down and kill that wooly mammoth been dependent on their recent ingestion of berries or root vegetables.

January 26, 2012
1:10 pm
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Chuckie:

Actually it's the other way around: carb intake helps refill muscle glycogen, which is beneficial for sprints and intense efforts over ~50% of VO2max. 

Since fat contains perhaps 3500 calories per pound, we've got an essentially infinite amount of calories to burn: but the speed at which we can oxidize fat is limited by our ability to transport it into our mitochondria (the carnitine shuttle).  For efforts above that threshold, we need to start burning muscle glycogen, which usually becomes depleted in a ketogenic state.

Note that obligate carnivores don't have this problem: the liver of a lion or hyena cranks out sufficient glucose via gluconeogenesis (conversion from protein) to refill muscle glycogen as well as run its brain, red blood cells, etc.  But humans have a much bigger brain that requires more glucose, and our livers aren't as good at gluconeogenesis, so it's difficult for us to refill muscle glycogen purely via protein intake.

I'm sure that there is genetic variation in the human liver's capacity for gluconeogenesis, too.  Ketosis goes along with some degree of insulin resistance so that muscles don't suck up all the glucose from the liver and leave the brain starving, which is probably why many native populations are so ravaged by obesity/diabetes/metabolic syndrome when they first encounter grain-based diets: having been foragers until comparatively recently, they're better adapted to the ketotic state and more insulin resistant by default.  (Note that fasting also puts you in ketosis, so the adaptation is to not eating at all as well as eating an animal-based diet.)  This isn't the whole picture, but it's likely to be part of it.

JS

April 2, 2012
9:04 pm
Candy
Guest

Thank you for an informative read! After a fasting glucose test revealed very high glucose and triglycerides, I immediately changed my diet. Proteins, carbs and FAT with every meal (5 smaller ones per day). Most carbs are from vegetable sources, some from whole milk dairy, a very few from whole grains. This, along with regular excercise consisting of cardio and weights.... I dropped 15 pounds, stabilized glucose levels and blood pressure dropped, too.... in about 2 1/2 weeks.
I feel great! Still losing weight and have more energy than I've had in years.

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