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There Is Another Level Above "I'm Doing Fine"
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March 4, 2013
12:14 am
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First-Eater
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Tim:

Some people will always dismiss anything outside the conventional wisdom as nutty...but many people are simply waiting for social proof.  Thus the snowballing effect of most trends: the more people join a trend, the more other people feel comfortable joining it, because their threshold of social proof has been exceeded.

We're starting to see that with paleo: enough independent thinkers have been promoting it for long enough to give it some social proof, so not everyone views it as a "fringe" diet anymore.

JS

March 4, 2013
10:04 pm
Andy
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Now if I could get young people (I am one) convinced that there is a level above "I'm fine", maybe they would stop thinking that healthy food is something to worry about when you're old and have heart disease. It's great to feel great!

March 10, 2013
10:32 pm
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Andy:

Exactly.  When your diet consists mostly of cheese quesadillas and beer and you're still skinny, it's easy to convince yourself that it's too much bother to think about food.  I can only imagine how much I could have got done in college had I been "paleo"!

JS

March 31, 2013
6:23 am
WalterB
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One thing I missed in this discussion is the role of cooking. We assimilate far more energy from our food if it is cooked which will not show up in the bomb calorimeter. Starch vs. resistant starch and fiber that is converted to short chained fatty acids and so on.

I think there have been few studies measuring calories absorbed and then you have to account for changes in metabolic rate.

April 7, 2013
5:22 pm
daniel
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My own level of doing more than fine is almost like yours. Not sure why i had never stumbled here before, but i'll read all of it, your articles are amazing. Thanks.

April 16, 2013
1:14 am
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WalterB:

Richard Wrangham exaggerates these effects: raw meat, for instance, is perfectly digestible AFAIK.  It's mostly vegetables and Neolithic grain-based foods whose availability changes dramatically.

However, you are correct that cooking methods can make a meaningful difference — particularly with starches.

daniel:

Thank you!  I greatly appreciate the vote of confidence, and I'm glad my work hasn't been lost in the white noise of self-aggrandizing drama that infects the paleosphere from time to time.

JS

May 4, 2013
4:44 am
Juan
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Finally, I have some info and a video regarding elbow tendonitis/tendonosis. This is primarily for JS and for Jen, who mentioned it a couple of months ago, but anyone feel free to look and give me your thoughts. the video is 7 minutes long. There are annotations throughout plus text below that explains a few things further. Here is the URL:

I may have an update shortly, as well, based on some "new" protocols (basically concentrating on biceps for medial and triceps for lateral; not a self massage for the most part).

Anyway, hope it works.

Juan

May 4, 2013
4:46 am
Juan
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Oh, I see the video is embedded. Cool. However if you want this further text and info, you'll need to go the youtube page.
Juan

May 28, 2013
11:44 am
Tracy Kolenchuk
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Excellent article. Excellent title - "another level". I suggest you take it a bit farther. If you were to give the 'other level' a name, what would you name it? I call it "healthicine".

I blog at Healthicine.org, where I put forth the concept that 'healthiness' is larger than illness, and illness is actually a subset of healthiness. Unfortunately, there is no-one scientifically studying the concepts of healthicine, much less trying to measure healthiness in a useful fashion - eg. useful enough to have a positive effect on the health of individuals and the nation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your Paleo ideas have no value - I believe they have significant value, but our so called 'health sciences' (actually sick sciences) have no way to measure 'positive health effects' - they can only measure sickness and sickness effects, even your post is evidence of that.

For example, let's suppose we find two people like you, who are eating very healthy diets - and show no signs of illness. How might we measure who is healthier?

Alice and Ziz are good friends, who have very different lives. Neither has any illness. Alice or Zizi? Who is healthier?
http://healthicine.org/wordpress/health-test-alice-zizi-part-1/

to your health, tracy

May 28, 2013
1:22 pm
Madison, WI, USA
Gnoll
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Tracy,

 

I think the question of who is healthier might make the assumption that there is a one size fits all diet for all people and that is simply not true.  At same point you have to account for individual differences, i.e. what is healthy for one, may not be healthy for another and the only person who really knows what is healthy for them is the individual (assuming they are listening to their selves).  

 

At some point, people have to take on the responsibility of their own health and not simply rely on others to tell them what is and isn't healthy.  Others can give ideas for individuals to test out themselves, but ultimately it's up to the individual to figure out what health means for them.

 

Jen

"Often we forget . . . the sky reaches to the ground . . . with each step . . . we fly."  ~We Fly, The House Jacks

June 10, 2013
1:39 am
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Tracy:

I think it's relatively easy to define "healthiness" in terms of "lack of sickness, injury, or other dysfunctionality that leaves one functioning below their potential". 

The problem most people have is that they've never been fully healthy, so they have no basis for subjective comparison -- which is what this article is about.

The problem we have with trying to measure health objectively is that everyone is genetically and environmentally individual, and therefore has a different optimal level of function.  For example, my reflexes are quick, so I test well above average on reaction time...but that doesn't mean my brain is functioning optimally, because I might well have the potential to react even faster!

JS

August 8, 2013
6:52 am
Heather
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I was talking to my Mom a few months back. She was talking about one of my Dad's friends. (Mom is 68; Dad is 71). She said that he was in his early 70s and was in great shape. Her exact words were "he was blessed with good health". I laughed. I said "Mom, do you hear what you're saying??!!" Since when are we blessed with good health. Does that mean the rest of us are screwed unless we happen to be "blessed with good health"?

I guess I should start "praying" since the only way to be healthy as we age is to be "blessed". Sheesh.

August 8, 2013
1:12 pm
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
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You should, Heather … prayer is the key.

<irony>

Abuse your body as much as you like: eat filth, drink and drug yourself as much as you like, but when the chips are down, just pray. You'll be pure and virginal again. It's wonderfully cleansing … you should try it.

</irony>

On a serious note, many "old" folks have lived their lives in the traditional ways with exercise, toil, hard work, relaxing, not overworking, not stressing and eating simple, natural foods … yes, which might well have been full of bread, pasta, biscuits and so on, but old folks show restraint (one biscuit, not the packet), old folks had to scrimp and save, so cheaper (fattier) cuts of meat and old folks had to make do when they could not afford (read: fasting, or periodic macronutrient deprivation).

I've joked before that 'Eat Like Your Grandmother' stands as a strong sentiment, but I am getting more and more convinced that they were the last of the folks that ate real food and would enjoy a long and healthy life. Since the '50s and into the '60s we've had processed food rammed down out throats and dietary advice pummelled from every angle. All wrong.

Eat like your grandparents and you're about there …

Remove the remainder of the rubbish and you're all the way there. I guess the rest of their lifestyles managed to offset the negatives from the remainder that we now need to kick out. They might have been able to tolerate breads and so on, but today's bread is nowhere near bread from half a century ago.

Old folks, like everyone today, should engage in an ancestral diet as closely as they can. Even the "good" stuff in our diets is so messed and fiddled with that we are nowhere even close to a natural diet anymore. It takes effort. That's what old folks are good at.

Sadly, they also cannot be told anything …

With some love from family members, they can be steered towards goodness. I find that they can be steered quite well by talking about the days before governments messed with every single facet of our daily lives. Dairy is the big one … raw, unpasteurised dairy ("Green Top" here in the UK) was much loved by folks like me in my youth, my parents and certainly their parents. That's a start … tackling meat production follows.

If they can eat meat and veggies, and drop all that "healthy fats" crap, returning to just butter and animal fats rendered from meat cooking, they'll be fine. Blessed, you might say, but isn't that just living in the blessing? Living in nature? Nothing more than another animal in the melange that is nature? That would be just lovely …

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

September 12, 2013
12:24 am
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Heather:

It's best to bless yourself with good health.  The gods may or may not ever get around to it!

 

Paul:

My parents were easy to convince because, as my mother said, "This is how we ate growing up."  They didn't even eat all that much bread...potatoes were the main starch.  Grass-fed beef (there wasn't any other kind), eggs, sausage and bacon, unpasteurized full-fat milk and butter, potatoes from the root cellar, and maybe some vegetables or apples in season (which wasn't for very long...)

Diet isn't an "all or nothing" practice, where if you don't get everything right you automatically die young.  The rural farmer's diet pre-1970 might not have been optimal, but it was much better than today's diet of convenience food -- seed oil-soaked gluten bombs.

JS

November 21, 2013
4:49 pm
Paleobird
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My 87 year old dad took to paleo eating very well as soon as I convinced him that it was not some "new fangled diet" but rather a return to eating the old fashioned way before fast/junk food screwed everything up.

About sodas my dad said, "sure there were sodas when I was a kid but they were only 6 oz and when the streetcar ride to your job cost a nickel and so did the soda, you didn't drink soda very often unless you were really rich."

My 82 year old best friend has taken to paleo cooking like Grok's Grannie. She grew up in Harlem during the depression and learned how to cook without wasting any part of the beast. She has showed me how to cook offal and gotten me past being squeemed out by it.

November 21, 2013
4:59 pm
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
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That is a really cool story, Paleobird. That generation or two before us knew a thing, or two, particularly around stretching food. It's difficult to stretch something from a packet, but real food can be pulled through to more than a couple of meals.

Here in Britain, we're now in a period of "permanent austerity", which means us plebs have to make do while the ruling elite continue to eat pheasant, daily, and wonder what the problem is.

Food banks are now prolific in every city. I'm a professional and struggle to make ends meet now, even with a paleo diet that pulls cheap meats, offals and bones as far as they'll stretch.

Maybe we should eat the rich.

Christ! We're facing a winter of fuel poverty and our ruling elite issued the following as advice: wear a jumper and cuddle around your one bar fire in one room ... or find a rich person's house and hug the walls in the hope of gaining some warmth by osmosis.

"Let them eat cake" is not a funny thing to say here at the moment.

My advantage with a paleo diet is not going to last long once folks cotton on to these cheap cuts and thrifty meals from offals and bones.

Fuck! We're doomed!

Did I say, perhaps we should eat the rich? Fatty fuckers! Not like vegans.

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

November 22, 2013
2:35 pm
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Paleobird:

The difference between the pre-industrial diet of rural Americans (who most likely worked the land and owned pigs and chickens) and a Paleolithic diet may actually be smaller than the difference between a pre-industrial and modern post-industrial diet.

"sure there were sodas when I was a kid but they were only 6 oz and when the streetcar ride to your job cost a nickel and so did the soda, you didn't drink soda very often unless you were really rich."

In contrast, today a 12-ounce soda costs under a buck and local transit costs $2.

I recall seeing a graph showing the average % of money Americans spent on food decreasing substantially over the last few decades.  This is not because income increased (it's been flat to slightly decreasing), it's because food has become cheaper: people are buying more processed grain products, which are highly subsidized by our government, and less actual food.  Soda is so cheap now because corn production is subsidized so heavily.

Paul:

That's due to the fact that our governments have spent $trillions of dollars/pounds/etc. bailing out big banks for making loans they knew could never be paid back.

If you run a bank or a large corporation and you screw up harder than anyone in the history of the world has ever screwed up, you get bailed out with taxpayer money.  If you're an individual who has somehow kept productive during all of this, and you're just trying to stay afloat, piss off -- we're taking all of your money to bail out the bankers.

JS

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