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8:26 pm
QuoteJust to add to this discussion... https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/business/kellogg-takes-aim-at-snack-foods.html
4:30 pm
February 22, 2010
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js290:
Great article! It's good news that people are eating less cereal for breakfast...but the alternatives being pushed are, if anything, even worse.
"Even that box of double-chocolate Krave is stamped 'Good source of fiber and whole grain.'"
I'm sure one reason that fiber and whole grains are pushed so hard is that they can be added to junk food without making it any less junky.
JS
11:51 am
This explains a lot.
I have PCOS. Which is basically a genetic metabolic disorder (we now know both men and women have it). Typically women get diagnosed because it causes infertility issues (though not for men). People who have it can become insulin resistant or diabetic.
I'm one of the few who does not come up as insulin resistant on blood tests. However, outward symptoms indicate I could be insulin resistant.
All my life, I almost never ate
breakfast (I am never hungry upon waking, and I don't like sugar for breakfast). I never eat cereal, or carb like substances for breakfast. Instead I go for protein or dinner items, or wait until lunch. But this is what I intuitively go for since my mom gave up on making me breakfast (because it was so hard for her to wake me up earlier than 5 minutes before the bus came so she didn't have to try to cram cereal down my throat).
Maybe this is why I haven't fell off the deep end into 'obviously insulin resistant' territory on blood tests?
It's interesting to ponder.
I have been told to eat a low GI diet. Truth be told, if you REALLY read how you're supposed to do the low GI, you'll find that you're gonna switch your bleached flour foods to unbleached whole grain foods, avoid other high GI foods like corns, most grains, and white potatoes. You're going to cut back the carb portions drastically, even for whole grain, and even more if it's something like mashed potatoes. They are concerned about the GI of the meal as a whole so you have to balance your sides, and the portions you use.
Counting the GI is like calorie counting, which is worthless to me. I'm going to memorize the GI and calories in everything.
I read between the lines came up with this condensed version. eat less carbs, even if they supposedly good carbs. And if you're still hungry, eat more greens, healthy fats, and proteins. You have to read into it a little bit, but that is what they are really saying.
Also, the concept that some foods have a better GI than others is debatable. It's been known for a while each diabetic can respond differently to different foods. White flour pizza crust might be a blood sugar spike trigger for one diabetic, while corn in corn chips would be for another.
One of the world's longest living diabetics is also a doctor, recommended doing a elimination diet, where patients add one type of carb at a time to their diet and see how their blood sugar reaction. This way they can determine what to eat.
In summary, I try to eat something green with every meal, and eat more meat and fat with every meal.
Make a point to incorporate more healthy fats because sometimes people with PCOS do not absorb their nutrients very well because of their lower metabolism. Fats help maximize absorption.
Cereal is also a scam. They will never really remove all that sugar.
Depending on the company who makes the cereal, there is a rule that cereals must float in milk for at least 3 minutes. How do they do that? They coat it in sugar.
Then they add a little whole grain and maybe fiber to make mom's feel better about feeding their kids fruity pebbles slurry.
12:29 am
@ Ashley,
The glycemic index was (and still is) a useful concept, but, like cholesterol measurements, its use has limitations.
For example, the GI of fructose is just 17, and this GI newsletter, from Australia, would have you believe that, there fore, fructose is safe!
http://www.glycemicindex.com/blog/2012/Mar/mar2012.pdf
Then again , anti-freeze is low GI, but that doesn't make it healthy either...
The problem with GI is that it encourages substitutions, instead of real changes. You end up with "low GI wholewheat breads" when the idea should be to avoid bread altogether.
the GI has become a way to put a rating on processed foods, that allows mfrs to game the system for a lower number. If the item has a GI on it, chances are it is not a real/whole food - when do you see GI labels on beef, milk, or broccoli?
When you do eat, make sure it is protein first, then your veg, and after that, you probably won't feel the need for much carb, and you have certainly lowered the GI of whatever yo do eat.
11:02 pm
February 22, 2010
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Ashley:
Absolutely. They can't come out and say "eat more fat and protein", but that's the logical endpoint. If you want to reduce glycemic spikes, you should reduce glucose intake...but you have to replace the calories with something, and as Paul points out, fructose is a bad choice.
I strongly recommend you read Paul Jaminet's classic article How to Minimize Hyperglycemic Toxicity for more information on how to reduce the effective GI of your meals!
And yes, "whole grains" are mostly a marketing scam. As I said to js290 above, "I'm sure one reason that fiber and whole grains are pushed so hard is that they can be added to junk food without making it any less junky."
Paul N:
Exactly! The glycemic index of fat is 0...so if you really want to drop GI, throw out those "complex carbs" and eat natural, high-fat animal products. "Low-GI bread" is like "low-tar cigarettes".
JS
5:15 am
From the YES I AM HUNGRY SOON AFTER WAKING UP group, which isn't being represented yet by this group of commentators, I have struggled to reduce breakfast size and/or frequency for ages.
The many comments, somewhat self congratulatory sounding, of "I never eat until noon" have always irritated me when I hear them. Gee, great, wish I could. Low carb and paleo did not change my unfortunate hunger either. For anyone on the other side of the experience fence, like me, my post is a post that you are not as alone as all of these other people make you feel.
FWIW, I am not overweight. I don't eat after 6pm, having no interest in eating late evening. No idea what any of this means.
2:11 pm
February 22, 2010
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Sue None:
That's fine. As I said in the article, "Yes, it’s OK if you’re genuinely hungry soon after you wake!" And if you're genuinely not hungry after 6 PM, you're probably one of those mysterious "morning people". I've heard of them.
JS
6:00 am
While your article was good I disagree with one thing.
That is your conclusions about what the mouse studies are saying. It is not the fact that the mice had a low fat breakfast that predisposed to metabolic syndrome, it was actually the high fat meals before the mice rested that predisposed to metabolic syndrome. Your conclusions are very misleading...
8:58 am
September 24, 2012
OfflineBillybob,
Could you explain WHY you believe it was the high fat meals before resting that predisposed them to metabolic syndrome?
"Often we forget . . . the sky reaches to the ground . . . with each step . . . we fly." ~We Fly, The House Jacks
3:42 pm
February 22, 2010
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BillyBob:
So you're contending that fat is bad...but only if you eat it for dinner?
First, the RER of the mice who ate the low-fat meal for "breakfast" (the "Late High Fat" mice) stayed above 1.0 for eight hours straight -- and only dropped once they ate a high-fat meal for "dinner". (The "high-fat" dinner was still 35% carbs, of which half was table sugar.)
In other words, the mice only regained metabolic flexibility once they were fed fat.
In further support of my interpretation, mice not only choose high-fat diets when allowed to -- those that do are healthier than their compatriots forced to eat high-carb chow:
"When scientists allowed a wild-type mouse strain that develops obesity and diabetes on a 40% carb, 40% fat chow to choose its own diet, it chose a diet of 5.6% carbs, 82.5% fat, and 12.0% protein, and "proved highly resistant to the development of obesity and diabetes." In the same study, transgenic mice genetically engineered to be even more prone to obesity and diabetes self-selected to a diet of 2.2% carbs and 85% fat and "developed obesity [that was] less pronounced than on a high-fat and high-carbohydrate Western diet...and did not become hyperglycemic; they showed decreased fasted and fed glucose levels." (Quote from Perfect Health Diet, p. 38. Here's the original citation, sadly unavailable in fulltext.)
So while it's possible that your interpretation is true, it seems extremely unlikely given the weight of the existing evidence.
JS
9:26 pm
I haven't read all the comments, but is there anyone here who actually needs to eat to avoid losing weight? I'm slim and healthy and would feel awful if I didn't eat within 30mins of rising. It bothers me, but at least on occasions like Xmas or other dinner parties, I don't need to worry about my weight because I never do gain weight.
For me breakfast is the most important meal of the day, along with lunch and dinner, which I am physically unable to skip.
5:02 pm
I'm fine skipping breakfast. But can I still have my coffee? Maybe with cream and no sugar?
5:14 pm
I'm fine skipping breakfast. But can I still have my coffee? Maybe with cream and no sugar?
4:31 am
September 20, 2012
OfflineMima, how do you feel when you wait to eat in the morning until you're hungry?
(Coffee geek mode start)
Black coffee / straight shot of espresso should *not* make even genetic 'bitter tastes' want to wretch. It should be pleasantly bitter and not taste burned or scorched. (Unless you're in Southern Italy). Genetic bitter tasters (husband is, I'm only partly) may have a harder time of it.
(coffee geek mode end)
Eat if you wake up truly hungry, but make food choices that aren't going to give you a hyper-spazz rush but then lead to a horrid crash at the bottom of Blood Sugar mountain.
2:54 am
February 22, 2010
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Robyn:
If you're legitimately hungry at breakfast, then eat! When I'm trying to gain muscle mass, I'll eat breakfast too. What I'm saying is that it's counterproductive to force ourselves to eat when we're not hungry just because we're supposed to want food at a certain time.
Mima:
Morning coffee is fine so long as you're drinking coffee -- not a latte, mocha, "frappucino", or any other sugary concoction. It's also an effective appetite suppressant. And a little cream in it won't hurt, either.
E Craig:
Good coffee is a pleasure, though I rarely indulge so as to maintain a robust response to caffeine when I really need it.
JS
1:22 pm
An interesting read from 1900.
The No Breakfast Plan and The Fasting Cure by Edward Hooker Dewey, M.D. Free on Kindle.
1:52 am
February 22, 2010
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Robert F:
Interesting! The therapeutic value of fasting and meal skipping has been known for quite a while...and the empirical evidence is that we had a much better handle on weight control "back in the day".
JS
2:28 am
There are some studies emerging which show that eating frequently actually improves insulin sensitivity for women. This is in opposition to all the research on intermittent fasting showing that skipping meals improves insulin sensitivity - those studies have been conducted on men only.
I agree that if you're not hungry at breakfast (I never have been) you shouldn't eat. But fasting may be counterproductive for women.
Women's bodies seem to be more attached to their fat stores than men's. Women experience starvation response mechanisms much more quickly than men do. Women's bodies have to be ready to have a baby, and that makes fat stores and access to food very important. Regular meals, and even regular starchy carbohydrates, seem to be extra important for women. Otherwise our bodies seem to think they are not being fed, and stress and hunger hormones go up, fertility goes down, and health risks increase.
Just an interesting thought to add to the other commenters who observe that women seem to need to eat more consistently, and more carbohydrates, than men.
1:27 pm
February 22, 2010
Offline
H:
I'd love to see the citations you're speaking of on eating frequency and insulin...feel free to leave them in a comment or send them to me via gnolls.org/contact.
The "need to have a baby" explanation is tempting -- as is most plausible-sounding evo-bio speculation -- but it doesn't explain why menopausal and post-menopausal women often seem to suffer even worse.
That being said, I don't disagree that women don't seem to respond as well as men to long IFs: I've noted above that women often seem to do best with a late breakfast and skipping lunch, vs. skipping breakfast entirely, as many men do.
JS
8:42 am
Great read! May be an ignorant question but curious on how to properly eat when working night shifts such as myself. Is it Just backwards? I wake up around early dinner time and don't eat as if it were to be my breakfast. Breakfast time for most people feels like my dinner and is usually the time I eat. Also I have a bad habit of fasting for days at times and was wondering if there is any other way not to over eat coming off of fasting. Thanks for the read and any feed back I could get would be appreciated.
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