Bookmark and Share

Please consider registering
guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic RSS
The Overachiever's Week Off: Why Bother With Paleo? A Quick Book Review, Food Reward, and More
Read the original blog post
June 1, 2011
7:51 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
Member Since:
February 22, 2010
Offline

Well, it finally happened: after almost six months of regular weekly updates, I found myself completely unable to complete another in-depth nutrition post for this Tuesday. Between traveling all week (last week's post was written on planes), an inopportune redeye flight, and successfully fighting off the resulting sore throat with sleep and real food, I was simply caught short.

I apologize.

Meanwhile, if you're curious about what all the recent to-do about "food reward" is about, and wondering just what "food reward" means in practical terms, this recent article will be instructive: .

And if you're wondering why you…

Bookmark and Share
June 2, 2011
6:18 am
Elenor
Guest

I'm a desperate wannabe paleo person who hates hates HATES veggies. I have hated them since I was a baby in a high chair when, no matter how my mom fixed them or which ones (and she was a good cook), if it contained veg, I spit it back at her. She finally mostly gave up, but not till after I had spent countless childhood hours sitting alone at the dining table, imprisoned until I "finished my veg!!" (And the damned dog under the table wouldn't eat them either!)

I've tried them on and off all my adult life -- I'm 56 and way overweight -- but I spent decades eating "heart-healthy" pasta (at least it was with lots of butter and cheese (good) and chopped up soy hotdogs (bad) or ground beef (good). Screwed up my metabolism AND my thyroid (which, the last at least, I'm finally semi-successfully treating!)

So -- how does one go truly paleo (I wanna be a Gnoll!) when one (still) gags at veg!? (They LOOK great -- and taste HORRIBLE!) (I'm one of what Monel Lab calls "supertasters" -- everything seems to be at least twice as strong-tasting to me as it does to 'normal' folks.)

I am doing Doug McGuff workouts once a week, which is giving me some real success in muscle building, under the fat- YAY!
And I do two (separated) hours of water aerobics (which is more like a long walk with friends -- to which I add my own sprints -- than actual serious exercise).

The 'primal/paleo diet... that's my problem. I have learned to eat lettuce, a little (back at age 41!), with Thous Isl. dressing (which I'm not eating anymore... soy oil and sugar... yuck!). Do I just go all carnivore, all the time?

Love your site, enjoyed your book.
El

Bookmark and Share
June 2, 2011
6:39 am
Brian Scott
Guest

Elenor: As Nikoley would say "[Screw] the vegetables." They're not necessary if you're eating a varied amount of meat and fat.

I'm similar to you in that I think I'm a "super taster", and things like lettuce, for example, will taste bitter to me if they're plain. The way I fix this (because I like the feel of eating lettuce, even if not the taste) is putting stuff on it that does taste good: the place I go to for lunch has a salad that I put beef and lamb over, with a simple dressing made from olive oil and lemon juice. Delicious. Same thing with carrots: eat them in beef stew where it soaks up all the flavour of the broth. It's so good.

J.: Where was that you went to? It's so beautiful. I was wondering where to go for vacation this year; perhaps I'll go there?

Bookmark and Share
June 2, 2011
8:53 am
Peggy The Primal Par
Guest

Elenor,

I don't eat vegetables and I've been Paleo for years. It's not that I don't like them but I am sensitive to most of them. They give me head aches and countless other problems. I have been doing just fine without them for a long time. Instead eat organs, eggs, meats, seafoods, fats, and bone broth. Also, if you're not totally insulin resistant, you could eat a little fruit. They are as packed with nutrients as veggies.

Don't despair, Paleo is a great place for people that don't, can't, or won't eat veggies.

Bookmark and Share
June 2, 2011
9:41 am
Timothy
Guest

Elenor: I always hated vegetables too. But after switching from a carb-centered diet to a primal diet with huge amounts of meat and fat, I started to get vegetable cravings. Now I crave all sorts of foods that would have made me retch at any other point in my life: brussel sprouts; broccoli; sardines; adrenal glands and much more. Dunno if that would be the case for you, but don't underestimate the ability of your palate to shift its preferences.

J.: How about an article on human aesthetics, both regarding other humans and the natural environment? Aesthetics are a fascinating window into forgotten details of the environment in which we evolved, and to which we are instinctively drawn, often in spite of ourselves. Evolvify.com scratched the surface but there's so much more to explore.

Bookmark and Share
June 2, 2011
2:10 pm
Dan
Guest

Nice essay about ends, not means. And what spectacular photos!

I'd like you to go deeper into the anthropological musings of the Gnoll Credo. What kind of relationships are we designed for? How do you balance the needs of individual vs. the tribe? How can one age gracefully and authentically in a society that worships youth? What other lessons can we take from our million years as hunter-gatherers that will help us thrive in (and perhaps counter-balance) today's very different world?

Bookmark and Share
June 2, 2011
2:59 pm
Phocion Timon
Guest

I don't care on what subject you write. Your writing is done well and is entertaining. I will read whatever you put on the blog.

Bookmark and Share
June 2, 2011
3:20 pm
Melissa "Melici
Guest

1. Those photos are breathtaking -- and make the 95+ temps here in Austin seem all the more painful. What a lovely trip you must have had!

2. Thank you for the kind words about my book. That was such a crazy-wonderful time for me... starting Flat-Track Roller Derby was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. And all of the Rollergirls are even cooler than you think they are!

Bookmark and Share
June 2, 2011
5:18 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
Member Since:
February 22, 2010
Offline

Elenor:

I'm with Brian and Peggy. Don't stress about it: "fill half your plate with veggies" is just another remnant of the low-fat "faileo diet" that can't let go of certain mainstream nutritional dogmas.  (For instance, there's no evidence that eating your "five a day" protects against cancer.)  What are the odds that Paleolithic humans were selected for dependence on foods that are a) only available seasonally and b) contain no significant calories?  An asparagus spear has four calories...it's barely even worth the effort to pick it.

That being said, veggies can add color and flavor to many dishes.  Saute them until tender, and pour butter on them until they taste good.  Don't neglect fruit-based sauces: for instance, mango-peach salsa is delicious!  But at the end of the day, it's not a big deal: no amount of butter will cause me to enjoy broccoli or cauliflower, and not eating them won't be the death of you.  

This woman is throwing the shot put at age 104.  Her secret?  "Don't eat vegetables, because I never eat vegetables. I know people that like diets that will scream at me, (but) don't eat vegetables. I never have," she said.

I'm glad you enjoyed The Gnoll Credo!  Isn't Gryka wonderful?  I still miss her.

Brian:

That's Lake Tahoe.  I live here, and the photos are culled from an entire long winter worth of ski weekends (and occasional weekdays).  Contact me if you want more information. 

Peggy:

Yes, organs and bones are fine sources of nutrients...and liver is basically a big vitamin pill.  I'm sure you'll be fine.

Timothy:

I too eat far more vegetables than before: I agree with you that starch definitely displaces them.  

As I've said before, I don't stress about vegetable intake: I figure my body will start craving them when it needs something. 

As far as an article on aesthetics, that's an interesting thought, and a very large subject.  I touch on why we enjoy "nature" and what we find "beautiful" in The Gnoll Credo, and in some essays I haven't published yet...perhaps I'll be able to carve part of it off and talk about it.  Thanks for the idea!

Dan:

Interpersonal relationships in hunter-forager societies are a big topic: I touched on their importance in The Civilized Savage And The Uncivilized Civilization, and I'm glad you're encouraging me to go into them more deeply.  Expect more in the future, though I can't promise a schedule.

Phocion Timon:

Glad to see you over here...and thanks so much for the support!

Melicious:

I live here in Tahoe, so it's not so much a "trip" as the Greatest Hits from the entire winter, which lasted from before Thanksgiving until...well, now.  It snowed several inches yesterday.  

I'm glad to plug your book: I enjoyed reading it.  No matter how big and successful WFTDA gets, getting it started had to have been a special time.  And the camaraderie and joy really shone through.

JS

Bookmark and Share
June 3, 2011
12:30 am
Franco
Guest

Totally agree about the veggies, even when I really enjoy small amounts.
If I have cravings for them then it's always tomatoes, peppers, onions or carrots. Green salads with tomatoes go only well with a huge steak (preferably with garlic butter).
I have strong cravings for cheese (and I take in milk products like cream/mascarpone, a bit milk everyday) at least twice per week. Don't know why is that. I gorged on milky stuff as long as I can remember.
Oh, nice landscape and all but I'm not a winter sports person. I'll take water skiing and beach volleyball on a hot day over mountain skiing on a cold winterday everytime. :)

Bookmark and Share
June 3, 2011
6:33 am
eddie
Guest

post workout nutrition would be something i'd be interested in, specifically different approaches for adding muscle mass, strength or fat loss.

attaining fat loss difference for men and women, i've read a lot about this but most seem to still be enamoured with the idea that sat fats are bad or whole grains are good.

i felt genuine sorrow when Gryka returned with the ritual scarring, was very well done.

also question of Asclepius who i notice comments here, i am reading Taubes book and he mentions Asclepius having a good blog, googling does not turn up one (well it turns up lots but i cannot identify which one is the one referenced) so was wondering where to find it?!

[EDIT by JS: TGC spoiler above. Select the text to see it.] 

Bookmark and Share
June 3, 2011
1:16 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
Member Since:
February 22, 2010
Offline

Eddie:

Good idea on the sports/workout nutrition.  I haven't jumped into it yet because it's a shark tank of people with very strong opinions who hold grudges forever, and I want to make sure I'm solid before making any pronouncements. But I'll talk about it someday.

And thank you for the kind words about Gryka and TGC.  Re-reading that part still makes me choke up.

Asclepius writes Natural Messiah, found at naturalmessiah.blogspot.com.

I also see here, in the comments, a couple great blogs from the point of view of parents: Peggy writes The Primal Parent, at theprimalparent.com.  

And I'm not seeing Katie in this particular thread, but she's a frequent commenter and writes Wellness Mama, which is full of excellent cooking tips (among other things).

Timothy writes Urban Primalist, at urbanprimalist.com.

Melissa, of course, writes The Clothes Make The Girl.

Franco:

I used to be really into cheese too, but since I've gone high-fat paleo my cheese intake has dropped nearly to zero.  Though I do occasionally enjoy some fresh mozzarella, especially on gluten-free bruschetta as a cheat.

JS

Bookmark and Share
June 5, 2011
8:28 pm
Courtney
Guest

Love your skiing pics!! :)

Bookmark and Share
June 5, 2011
10:08 pm
Franco
Guest

JS,

that's interesting. For me, beeing a fativore myself, it doesn't make a difference. And albeit I eat mozzarella and feta too, my cravings are specifically for yellow hard cheese - from dutch gouda over swiss cheese (tasty holes!) to parmigiano.

Bookmark and Share
June 6, 2011
7:50 am
Emma
Guest

I'd be interested in your take on the orthorexic tag that is getting thrown about the paleosphere. Robb Wolf tackled it on his podcast the other day with a big "f-you" to the person who asked if we sometimes go a little too far with our dietary choices and forget that part of the enjoyment of life is eating foods we enjoy. I see Richard Nikolay giving a big "f-you" to the other side of the equation and suggesting we live our lives in the best way we can and not take ouselves or our diets too seriously. What do you think?
Another interesting topic, which I see you touched on with your link to your sugar addiction post, is the changing viewpoint that starchy foods and fruit should no longer be feared and instead should be consumed daily.
Everytime I think I've got this WOL pinned down, the parameters change! First it was just meat, greens and fat. Now you can have dairy as long as it's raw and from pastured animals. Now we are ok with some potatoes and white rice and, while we're on the subject, pass the fruit bowl! What's a girl to do? :D
Your thoughts on these subjects would be greatly appreciated.

Bookmark and Share
June 6, 2011
2:01 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
Member Since:
February 22, 2010
Offline

Courtney:

You've probably seen some of them before...but they look so nice all put together.

Emma:

I'm glad you brought that up, and I'll most definitely be posting about it at some point.

I don't have a problem with saying "I'm going to cheat sometimes because it's delicious and I like it."  Where I part ways is with using shaky science to claim one has overturned the foundations of paleo, e.g. "saturated fat really is bad because of the melting point of something contained within a warm-blooded animal at constant temperature, even though it's part of a lipoprotein anyway so melting point doesn't even apply", or "fructose isn't bad because calorie restricted people lost just as much weight eating it, even though they're most likely eating less of it than they were before the calorie restriction".

There's an important difference between claiming sometimes is "not all that bad" and claiming it's desirable, which I think is being lost in the excitement.

JS

Bookmark and Share
June 7, 2011
5:09 am
Alex
Guest

Suggested topic: the lipophobic CW that paleo blogger Don Matesz, curiously, seems to have suddenly fully embraced.

Bookmark and Share
June 7, 2011
7:41 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
Member Since:
February 22, 2010
Offline

Alex:

Yes, I'll have to tackle that at some point.  His first theory, based on the melting point of fats, was so grievously wrong that he took it down and pretends it never existed. Now he's pushing a totally different theory, one which is also suspect science-wise...this suggests that he has some sort of ulterior motive for demonizing fat, because he's clearly casting about for reasons to be lipophobic.

I'm disappointed, because he's written a lot of solid posts in the past.

JS

Bookmark and Share
June 7, 2011
11:35 pm
js290
Guest

re: Post workout meal

Moderate protein intake as soon as possible after a workout. 1-2 hour window.

How much muscle you're able to grow is bound by your genetics.

Bookmark and Share
June 8, 2011
4:07 pm
Halifax, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 365
Member Since:
June 5, 2011
Offline

Here's a topic I'd like to see more about – frying.

I'm from the north of England and one of our food customs is deep frying in beef dripping. Our famous Fish & Chip shops should (if they're being traditional) use beef dripping – it gives a distinctive taste. More and more "chippies" are moving over to vegetable fats and transfats. Urgh! You can taste the difference and it's NOT good.

I am new to the concept of paleo-cuisine but well versed in many of the principles having lived what I might describe as "paleo" for the large proportion of my diet.

I am now fine-tuning.

Those edamame beans are gone, but I do like a plate of chips every so often. Is should point out that I mean "fries" here – we do have our little trans-atlantic differences, don't we :)

I have a deep fat fryer and it's full of vegetable oil. To my shame, I've no idea what oil :o Diesel, almost certainly. I want to move over to using beef dripping, but I don't know how it fares being stored longer term in a deep fat fryer. I don't know whether it re-solidifies. I don't know if it's a good idea to fill my deep fat fryer with it, but it seems a horrible waste to use it once and throw it away because you're not going to use it again for a couple of months. Maybe we could do more with a deep fat fryer filled with beef dripping.

I'm sure a JS researched article on beef dripping and practical methods of storage and re-storage for use with a deep fat fryer would be great. I'm also pretty sure many of us would love an odd portion of fries cooked in beef dripping as a quiet "cheat" … of maybe have partners who are not wholly convinced by the paleo approach and like being fed with fries; let's fry more naturally for them.

Here's a starting point: http://www.labint-online.com/featured-articles/bee.....index.html

Again, I don't know if our common language divides us and folks Stateside might know it as something else, so here's a primer on dripping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dripping

Bookmark and Share
Living in the Ice Age http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk
Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles

Most Users Ever Online: 86

Currently Online:
3 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1676

Members: 3423

Moderators: 0

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 2

Topics: 247

Posts: 7154

Administrators: J. Stanton: 2105