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What Is Hunger, and Why Are We Hungry? J. Stanton’s AHS 2012 Presentation, Including Slides
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March 25, 2014
2:16 pm
Bea
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V
I just reread your comments here after perusing Jenny Ruhl's site and they really
became so much clearer. You are smart and fiesty. Banned from the kingdom is an honor. Remain a thorn!

JS

I have done sooo well lc paleo and sometimes wonder why when I hear people say they stalled or get high fbs. It seems my liver is not very good at gluconeogenisis. If I go zero or vvlc my BS just inches lower and lower. Into the 50's and 60's or possible 40's. My body seems forced to flip over to fat burning immediately. Does my limp liver actually make it easier for me to lose and maintain on lc? I think it would be a detriment in a famine situation as I lose weight so fast without carbs. Do people with Inuit type livers that can supply endless glucose and thus insulin have a harder time? My head hurts.. I think it is what you were addressing in your Flexibility post. I think if you have lost your flexibility it's better to be a fat burner like me. It's a little easier when you can control your glucose needs not your rogue liver. Your current post also addresses reasons I wasn't satiated for years. Always trying to reverse the feeling of metabolic derangement when my BS levels were heading back down and socialized eating fests. I hope something there made sense:-)

 

Bea:

Very low FBG on VLC could have multiple causes.  Your liver (and intestine…I'll probably write about that sometime) might not be keeping up with the demand.  Alternatively, your muscles might not become physiologically insulin resistant.  Or both.  Or something else entirely…I don't feel comfortable e-diagnosing that one!

"I think if you have lost your flexibility it's better to be a fat burner like me."

As far as we know, complex I — the glucose-burning one — is what breaks in one's mitochondria that causes met flex to be impaired.  I suspect this is why low-carb diets are so effective, particularly for the morbidly obese and those who became obese before adulthood…you're bypassing the worst of the mitochondrial damage, and perhaps allowing the population to recover somewhat — which is why people often find they can tolerate carbs again after some period of time on LC.

"Your current post also addresses reasons I wasn't satiated for years."

Yep.  If you don't give your body what it needs to live, you're likely to stay hungry no matter what you eat.  (And re: my 2013 presentation, if you have a continual obligate demand for glucose, you're always going to be hungry once your blood sugar drops.)

JS

March 25, 2014
4:20 pm
v
Guest

i just skipped lunch with no problems at all (well, i got a little chilled), so i must have some kind of metabolic flexibility. part of my experiment in trying to sleep the whole night through without heating up/waking up, chilling down/waking up. is it hormones or is it nocturnal hypoglycemia? it is a mystery!!

Bea, glad i don't rub you the wrong way. some people i do. oh well. i don't like overconfidence when it comes to giving other people health advice for money. everything is murky and we need to proceed with caution- some definitely more than others.

 

v:

Independence costs money.  

I have been offered many opportunities to make money by lending my credibility to someone else's project, and I've lost some professional and personal relationships because I'm not willing to play the "give me a great review and I'll give you a great review" game.  

That doesn't even count the direct income: most people are either employed or self-employed at selling their own dietary advice (or employed at a laboratory under a lead academic with established dogma), which puts them in an awkward situation when new knowledge comes to light.

Ironically, my thoughts and recommendations have remained relatively constant, and though I am happy to revise them when necessary, I have found little reason to -- and many reasons to keep moving the same direction.  I believe this is a sign that my paradigms are, in general, correct.

In closing: I do this because I enjoy it.  However, for you or anyone else who wants to support my work, those of you who are US residents can do so at zero cost by making Amazon purchases through my referral links.  Those outside the US have no zero-cost options, but they can buy a copy of TGC.  And everyone can help spread the word by linking my articles for others who need them or appreciate them. 

JS

March 25, 2014
7:55 pm
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Several new replies are up!

JS

March 28, 2014
8:52 am
v
Guest

i do this because i enjoy it and my health depends on it. maybe i could make a buck too. but some of us aren't tempted that way and don't see not acting evil as a sacrifice or costing money. there are too many things we don't know about metabolism to act confident. research LADA alittle and see how it plays into your theories. i know jaminet knows nothing about it as per his admission in an email to me.

March 28, 2014
6:24 pm
v
Guest

ps the least harmful advice you can give would apply to somewhat metabolically normal people. the problem is the ones who are suffering have all sorts of different root causes for their suffering that you (and science in general) don't understand. you need a little more humility. I admire terry wahls, but I had to laugh at one part of her interview on livinlavidalowcarb when she said 'her' insight that vitamins and minerals should be gotten from real food as opposed to supplements was a "stroke of genius". when the young, astute interviewer asked her what sparked this insight, wahls said she couldn't remember. I had to laugh. I heard the same thing- that there are probably lots of undiscovered nutrients in real food that probably work together synergistically- so it is foolish to just depend of supplements- I heard that from de vany and Bernstein YEARS ago. but wahsl feels she had a brilliant stroke of insight. LOL this example is too show the dearth of humility in the paleo/ancestral health etc. blogosphere. but I guess one has to have a lot of confidence as a personality trait (irrespective of innate intellect) to stand in front of a bunch of people who are suffering and say 'I know what to do.'

March 28, 2014
6:46 pm
v
Guest

News flash! News flash!! long time paleo commenter (too lazy to have real blog) known as the mysterious 'v' (lower case to reflect mild cognitive impairment) is preparing a new- literally-ground-breaking coffee table book with lots of photos and lower reading comprehension level vocab to demystify the importance of 'DIRT" in the ancestral paradigm!!! she will pretty much rip-off stuff other smart people have already said and make it accessible to dumbies. the working title of this future best-seller is: 'DIRT for DUMMIES' or "How to make sure your back yard garden dirt is clean enough to plant stuff in and get on your hands and digestive system so you will poop well". She will elucidate how you cannot always trust that your back yard or your local farmer's field is free of contaminants. before you eat lunch with your dirty unwashed hands, think- is their lead in this soil? mercury? coal ash? arsenic? you will be able to order from amazon dirt sterilizing kits! Import dirt for Tahiti! and many other thought-provoking and fun take-aways on DIRT (TM).

March 29, 2014
7:54 pm
Bea
Guest

V

Make sure you put your dirt in little capsules and call it Tahitian Soil Based Organisms. 🙂

April 1, 2014
6:12 am
Dave
Guest

v, interesting insights you have. While I'm always open to new ideas (which are only probably 'new' to me), I've learned to be more skeptical. While I admire the results that Terry Wahls has personally achieved, I'm also aware that the 20th century Natural Hygiene movement reported some success with multiple sclerosis by conducting water-only fasts. Given that no nutrients are taken during this time of fasting, the body's ability to repair itself using stored reserves would seem to contra-indicate the need for plant nutrients that Terry seems to think are so necessary. Of course, what should one eat after the fast? That's where I disagree with the NH movement and their plant worshiping tendencies. I tend to hold a similar view to Dr Georgia Ede (Diagnosis: Diet).

About the only advice I ever give to friends and family anymore is to cut out the refined sugar and wheat from their diets. That is more than most are willing to do, unfortunately. And yet this basic information was know since the publication of Weston A. Price's classic book.

April 1, 2014
1:55 pm
v
Guest

i can see how things affect my nuclear family from day to day, so i make suggestions to them. for others i just say what works for me, and they can do whatever. i am grateful for people who give out info for free. de vany once said that he can only guarantee that his advice will work for him alone. i added, we are all on our own and we need to be cautious. he admits to being ignorant of a lot of things. for example, he started taking glutathione around the same time he starting his brand of paleo. he isn't sure of the relative impact of each on his health, and he doesn't want to find out by stopping any part of what he is doing.

April 2, 2014
4:28 pm
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v:

Are you sure someone isn't already selling Paleo Dirt?  Paleo Water is already a thing...

Correct me if I'm wrong -- but LADA is an autoimmune pathology that, as far as anyone knows, is basically a more slowly-developing version of Type 1 diabetes. 

And as I said above, "Anyone with a major medical diagnosis — whether that be diabetes, anaphylaxis-level allergies, lupus, or anything else — would need to filter any of my recommendations for general health through the needs of their specific condition, let alone any second-hand recommendations from sources I've found valuable for myself."

Frankly, I'm baffled at your accusations of lack of humility.  I've been careful to credit my sources, both in my articles and in my AHS presentations -- and as I said at the top of both presentations, "I don’t claim to have made a revolutionary new discovery. I’m bringing an existing field of research to light, and integrating it into our understanding." 

Anything beyond that would be false, because I'm quite sure that I have, by doing so, indeed made meaningful contributions to the community.  I'm not going to "aw, shucks" my way out of taking credit for the results of the years and years of hard work I've put in -- including being the first one to introduce (let alone explain) the four components of hunger and the concept of metabolic flexibility.  If that offends you, you'll just have to remain offended.

 

Dave:

Fasting is therapeutic for many diseases.  Of course, the interesting question becomes "What should I eat when I start eating again?" because if you decide to fast for the rest of your life, your lifespan will be short indeed!

JS

April 3, 2014
9:30 am
v
Guest

i didn't like when you said you weren't making money, implying you should be with all you have produced. do why not make money then? something in the works? also, could you please tell me how to distinguish night time temp changes that wake me up as being hormone related as opposed to blood sugar related or a combination of both? what is your recommendation as to what diet would be most helpful in this case? my point- metabolism is much more complex that what you have uncovered. i thank you for all your hard work.

April 7, 2014
3:54 pm
Bea
Guest

V
I feel your frustration with your health situations but I don't think JS presents his blog posts as the answer to all your problems. Unlike some. This way of eating within a L C frame work has worked best for me . I also like his well researched thoughtful posts. I don't know that you can tell what someone is implying over the internet if you can't hear the tone of their voice when they said it. You are just frustrated and looking for answers. I feel for you and only you can decide what's best for you. I also have alot of sleep issues but on LC paleo seem to be able to function better on less sleep. Exercise helps the sleep for me. My major problem is all the starch pushers and LC bashers that have taken over so called Paleo. My only issue with The Gnolls is I want more posts but that's the way it is when they are researched and thought out. Takes time.

April 13, 2014
8:12 am
Michael
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Thank you again for spending the time necessary to do the research instead of using your intellectual credit card to build a hypothesis and cling on to it.

April 13, 2014
1:36 pm
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v:

"also, could you please tell me how to distinguish night time temp changes that wake me up as being hormone related as opposed to blood sugar related or a combination of both? what is your recommendation as to what diet would be most helpful in this case?"

Given that I don't know your age, sex, medical or genetic background, or any pertinent information about you at all -- and that I don't have specific medical training -- I can't possibly diagnose that over the Internet!  

Nor do I have enough experience with those specific issues to offer any useful ideas.  

I know it's frustrating to be dealing with painful and/or debilitating issues, especially when the medical profession is of little help.  I've been there myself.  Unfortunately, in your specific case, I can't offer you anything but my prescriptions for general health and my best wishes.

 

Bea:

I'm in the middle of a giant chunk of research right now, and it'll be both interesting and extremely valuable to the community -- but as you said, it takes time.

And yes, the LC bashing is just provocation marketing.

 

Michael:

You're welcome!  The problem with using your intellectual credit card is that it's easy to max it out and hard to pay it back.  

Ironically, my lack of traditional professional qualifications helps keep me honest: since I can't fall back on my day job, I'm only as good as my public body of work.  

I'm glad you find it interesting and valuable.

JS

April 14, 2014
4:28 pm
bea
Guest

"Bea:

I'm in the middle of a giant chunk of research right now, and it'll be both interesting and extremely valuable to the community — but as you said, it takes time.

And yes, the LC bashing is just provocation marketing."

Can't wait!

“Paleo” Is An Exclusive and Not Inclusive Diet: What Are You Eliminating Rather Than Including, Next?"

That was the heading on FTA. He then proceeded to mock some poor woman's diet and encouraged the disciples to do likewise.

April 21, 2014
1:13 am
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bea:

That's discouraging.

Also, I'm puzzled why the people who have long ago abandoned paleo in favor of milk, corn tortillas, etc. feel the need to try and define it for everyone else.  There's a place for their diet -- it's called the WAPF.  

No amount of gymnastics will EVER make corn consumption "paleo".  Period.  End of sentence.  Do I occasionally have street tacos?  Sure -- but as I've said before, I don't claim they're anything but a cheat.  

JS

April 25, 2014
11:27 am
LaFrite
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J, you said: "Do I occasionally have street tacos? Sure"

Man, you did not eat enough meat that day, falling back on prey's food!! 😀 😀

Just kidding, I do buckwheat galettes and rice a couple of times a month myself 🙂

April 25, 2014
11:40 pm
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La Frite:

When you're on a road trip, the supermarkets are closed, and the alternatives are Carl's Jr. or a microwave "burrito", street tacos filled with cabeza, pico de gallo, salsa rojo, and a squeeze of lime start looking both tasty and healthy by comparison!

JS

May 9, 2014
7:52 am
Dave
Guest

All quiet on the posting front, eh? There's been a lot of noise lately about resistant starch and safe starches. Some people do seem to be very concerned about colon health and the gut bacteria. All very interesting to be sure.

My interest of late has become focused on the other side of the GI tract. I stumbled upon the work of Mike Mew and Orofacial Myology. Now, while most people in the whole foods movement, especially those familiar with Weston A Price, are concerned about tooth decay and good dental arches, I've not seen anyone else approach the subject of facial construction from the more physical perspective. Yes, nutrition has a big role to play, but what about those of us who have already suffered the damage caused by diet and lifestyle in our developing years?

The fact is that our facial bone structure remains 'plastic' throughout our lives, and any neuromuscular disorder or poor lifestyle habit can cause our faces to 'melt' downward as we age. The conundrum for me is how nutrition works with skeletal musculature to deform civilized humans. I always assumed that it had something to do with lack of K2 and bone formation, but now I'm not so sure. The evidence seems to point to sinus inflammation that forces changed breathing and eating habits.

I know this is really off topic for this article, but maybe someone could objectively figure out the "chicken" and the "egg" about diet and facial construction. After all, who wouldn't want to look better, relatively speaking, as he/she ages?

FOX
I said one bite, cuss it!

KYLIE
I'm trying! I have a different kind of
teeth from you! I'm an opossum!

May 12, 2014
12:04 pm
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Dave:

I've been busy with research, both for my AHS14 talk and in general, on topics much more far-reaching than RS.  

Yes, it's important to have a healthy colon...just as it's important for all our organs to be healthy. (An unhealthy heart, lungs, liver, brain, etc. will kill you much faster than an unhealthy colon.)  However, what with all the provocation marketing and prima facie baloney, there is far more heat than light being generated at this time -- to no one's benefit. 

Remember: I called this one two years ago, in an article that is more relevant now than ever.

 

Yes, I'm familiar with the work of Dr. Mew: he presented at AHS2012.  There is strong experimental evidence for K2 being crucial in the development of facial structure:

Vitamin K — its essential role in craniofacial development

A review of the literature regarding vitamin K and craniofacial development

Andrew M. Howe, William S. Webster

Australian Dental Journal Volume 39, Issue 2, pages 88–92, April 1994

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1834-7819.1994.tb01379.x/abstract

"The normal vitamin K status of the human embryo appears to be close to deficiency. Maternal dietary deficiency or use of a number of therapeutic drugs during pregnancy, may result in frank vitamin K deficiency in the embryo. First trimester deficiency results in maxillonasal hypoplasia in the neonate with subsequent facial and orthodontic implications."

I think Weston A. Price and Dr. Mew are both correct: K2 allows proper growth of bone structure in the neonate, which allows proper nasal breathing in infants and children, which (along with actually using our jaws to chew) allows proper growth and development as we age.

JS

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