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Carbohydrates vs Fats
February 15, 2012
5:30 pm
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 19
Member Since:
June 26, 2011
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Hi

 

Protein is important for saeity and muscle repair.

 

The fuel sources are either Carbohydrate or Fat

 

If you eat High carb Low fat.... instead of Low fat High carb wouldn't it have the same effect on fat or weight loss.  This is providing we keep to below our RDI and we ingested the protein required.

 

Regards

ubetido

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February 16, 2012
12:31 am
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
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February 22, 2010
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ubetido:

The problem is that we have nearly unlimited storage capacity for fat, but low storage capacity for glucose (carbs), as glycogen in the muscles and liver -- and even lower storage capacity for fructose, which can only be stored in the liver.  And that storage capacity is dependent on how often we exercise at high intensity: if we never exercise, we'll never deplete any muscle glycogen.

The problem with carbs comes when we eat more of them than we have room to store.  This causes all sorts of metabolic havoc -- imagine a big enzymatic and intermediate product traffic jam in cells all over your body -- because the last-ditch disposal pathways are much slower than glycogenesis.  Result: damaged metabolism.

In contrast, eating too much fat will indeed cause you to store fat...but it won't screw you up metabolically except in combination with too much sugar.  (Caveat: I assume you're eating healthy saturated and monounsaturated fats.  A high-PUFA diet can indeed screw you up metabolically.)

JS

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February 16, 2012
1:41 pm
Guest
Guest

What would you say, then, that an athlete should eat on a regular basis if one was interested in fat loss? Should it be a certain amount of glucose every day (say 200g), but still retain a high fat % of total calories for right after the glucose is burned off?

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February 16, 2012
1:58 pm
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Forum Posts: 2105
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February 22, 2010
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"Guest":

It depends on what sort of exercise you're doing, and how much.  But if you've got your diet relatively dialed otherwise (e.g. you're weight-stable and happy with your performance), and you're trying to lose some fat mass, I've had success with dialing up the protein (in relative terms) and dialing down the fat.  This is because you want to "eat" the fat on your ass instead of the fat in your diet, but you don't want to lose muscle mass or leave yourself glycogen-depleted.

Note that you don't want to eat a low-fat diet!  This will dramatically decrease satiation and cause your food to be digested too quickly...you'll know how little fat is too little because none of your food will taste good anymore.  But if you're eating a high-fat functional paleo diet, there's plenty of room to chop out some calories...usually I've found that removing cheats or borderline cheats is sufficient.

JS

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February 16, 2012
3:08 pm
Guest
Guest

So you're suggesting getting glucose from protein but keeping carbs to a minimum still? What about high-intensity exercises that are completed over the course of 2 hours? 1 hour?

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February 16, 2012
3:36 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
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February 22, 2010
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Guest:

No, I don't suggest VLC for people undergoing high-intensity exercise, except as an occasional training tool to increase FAO: my recommendations assume you're already on a high-fat paleo diet with carbs sufficient to maintain your glycogen stores. 

I recommend somewhat higher protein because it's satiating and will help you eat less (to a point), and will help you maintain muscle mass during caloric deficit...and I don't recommend cutting carbs while you're exercising intensely.  That leaves fat, some quantity of which you want to come off your ass instead of from your diet.  Again, I don't recommend a low-fat diet...just that when cutting calories, you should cut more of them from fat.

Remember that protein can be burned directly for energy: it doesn't all have to be converted to glucose.  The problem is that we can't store it: we have to either build tissue, burn it, or convert it to glucose.

JS

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February 16, 2012
3:39 pm
Halifax, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 365
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June 5, 2011
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I'm of the opinion that our bodies are happiest with some intensive activity and lots of rest - chill out, relaxing, stress-free lazing around and sleeping. High intensity is stressful; stressful on the frame and mind. Intensive activity is an all-out sprint, running all out up a hill that's tiring to walk up, short bursts of all out and then rest.

I love my evening walk, just 2-3 miles an evening when I get home from work to de-stress. I walk fast, but not hard - biomechanically, I'm walking and not stressing my joints and muscles, but I am working them and I am working my heart, bringing up the pulse rate but not pushing it to the limit. At the weekends I get out into the hills for a longer period outside, which I find thoroughly invigorating.

Once a week I do an all out sprint which, if you're not wanting to be sick at the end, you've not done it hard enough. Imagine being chased by a predator and try to flick the fear/flight thing. Lift heavy things, too.

None of that needs to be programatic or gym-based. Just some heavy things in the garden, also resistance bands to have your body work against its own strength.

That leaves a lot more time to enjoy life.

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Living in the Ice Age http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk
February 18, 2012
6:27 pm
Guest
Guest

I have about 50lbs of US Wellness Meats pet burgers stored in my freezer right now (65% fat). Is there a way to consume all of this without draining/wasting the fat while eating higher protein and lower fat? I normally eat one pet burger for dinner and half one for lunch. Plus vegetables and starch.

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February 20, 2012
8:28 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
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February 22, 2010
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Guest:

Add some lean protein to it.  Either get some and mush it in with the burger, or eat some on the side.

Remember that the idea is to lose weight, not gain it...the total amount of food should be the same or less.  In other words, start with less pet burger and make up the difference with something lean.

If you're doing it right you shouldn't be much more hungry.  Caveat: a male body generally doesn't like to be below ~13% bodyfat (the threshold for women is higher), and the only way I've found to reliably get below that threshold into the "ripped" zone involves being hungry some of the time.

JS

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February 20, 2012
9:43 pm
Guest
Guest

I'm actually a girl with about 20 pounds or so of pure fat to lose. I'm already extremely muscular underneath (~200lb squat for example...Is that muscular?), but just have had really bad eating habits for the past 3 years. I started paleo about 2 months ago, but didn't really see any results. My athletic off-seasong training also suffered when I cut down on the carbs, in addition to fat gain. Maybe you are right in that I need more protein; I will do that in addition to adding a bit of glycogen-restoring carbohydrates. Thank you so much for the information.

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February 20, 2012
11:20 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
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February 22, 2010
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Guest:

Paleo for athletes isn't the same as paleo for sedentary fat people. After you get through the adaptation period of being able to train fasted and go through the day without snacking on carbs, it's actually counterproductive to load up on fat.

You don't want to binge on carbs, but you do need to replace what you're burning in training -- and you want to make sure you're getting plenty of muscle-building protein.  So what's left to cut if you want to lose fat?  Fat.

Also, I'm not a purist.  In the case of strength training I'm not opposed to a PWO whey protein or BCAA shake, as it'll aid anabolism.  It's also another quick way to add protein to a too-fat petburger...but I'd much rather add meat to it so you get the satiating and joyful experience of actually eating food.

Hope this helps! Let us know what happens.

JS

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April 29, 2012
9:52 pm
Sydney
Immigrant
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
January 4, 2012
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This is a common theme and I am suffering to some extent myself, I am a 50 yo Cyclist..

I find the appetite is still to blame, I can scarf down callories after a good workout so that the net is breakeven at best, for me I have to simply eat less and be a little hungry for a while, it actually fades a little so is not too inconvenient or unpleasant. The CW of limiting energy in verses energy out though is still dubious if you go in for carby snacks, rather than fatty ones, I prefer a bacon and egg omlette in front of a banana bread even though the callories will be the same... But to loose fat I find you have to use it, and then not chew it back on. Intermittant fasting is great for that, do a good fasted work out and then not eat for a few hours after, and eat well when you do seems to work but not being female it may not be the case for you, and I do not have any Insulin resistance or other metabolic disorder to overcome so the fat melts off fast when it does.

 

Primal eating is for me a long term habit, if you have to limit stuff try only one glass of wine, instead of two, and nil sugar, the rest takes care of itself, and eat only when hungry, if you know what that really feels like...I enjoy the anticipation of eating almost as much as bogging in.

 

great site JS

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April 30, 2012
10:53 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
Member Since:
February 22, 2010
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Cyclops:

Thanks for the support!

Yes, it's easy to scarf down gigantic amounts of whatever after an intense workout...I find that, for muscle-building purposes, it's best to at least scarf down some meat or protein powder right away even if I delay my meal for some time afterward.

However, it's absolutely true that eating quickly (as we do when very, very hungry) can decrease the satiation response, which is based on the sensory experience of eating food (see Part V of "Why Are We Hungry?")  So while I don't think it's a good idea to deliberately starve oneself (unless you're trying to keep pathologically low bodyfat, i.e. cutting for competition or bodybuilding), I can recommend slow, mindful eating as an antidote to post-exercise munchies.

JS

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