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Newbie to Gnoll
May 23, 2012
3:28 am
Bury, Lancashire, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
May 22, 2012
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I registered as ExVeggie because for years (not recently, I admit) that's what I am. Although there were, at the time, some apparent benefits I began to realise that living without meat wasn't much fun...so back to being a carnivore, and loving it!

I admit I got the book by accident (sorry, I didn't buy it) but read it cover to cover in no time flat. Obviously that led me to the website and I think my wife suspects me of checking out loads of porn sites or something as I think I've now read nearly every post and article on the site. Finding the website happened 4 weeks ago: 3 weeks ago I jumped in and started following the credo as closely as my sceptical wife would accept (she won't go for it...yet).

Result: I've dropped 12lbs and have leapt out of bed each day since feeling great! The why of it because for the first time in my life I feel as if I've 'come home'. All my doubts and confusion about diets and what was and wasn't the right food have been answered.

A bit of background on me might be good at this point. Having dropped big business about 8 years ago we (sceptic and I) decided life was a bit short and that we needed a complete change of style. I had been keen on complimentary and alternative therapies before getting pulled in by big money and bigger stress. 30 years of doing massage as a hobby became a professional 'pass-time' and household expenses source...we also started doing bed and breakfast.

For the last 4 years I've been involved with the Federation of Holistic Therapy (FHT) both for professional registration and as co-ordinator of a local support group (for other therapists). I organise little talks on a variety of subjects for our members, the most recent of which was about diet. This was just before getting the book, by the way. The lady who made the presentation obviously believed everything she said. As co-ordinator I felt obliged not to comment negatively on what was being said,but, boy oh boy, did I want to. In fact the only thing I agreed with was keeping away from low fat and no fat rubbish. She was coming up with all sorts of substitues for real food though...all of which I would now define as birdseed.

I known a lot about skeletal and muscular stuff but the chemistry is beyond my current knowledge, so I have to be a bit 'led' in this department. Giving massage keeps me moderately fit, you try sweating away 2 hours at a time trying to release tight muscles! I'm still overweight and not the lean machine I would like to be but I will get there.

All I can say, is 'thank you, sir' for the new knowledge you have given me.

David...ExVeggie

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May 23, 2012
8:16 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
Member Since:
February 22, 2010
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David:

I'm glad that "Eat Like A Predator" gave you the knowledge and inspiration you needed!  The world is full of advice, some well-intentioned, some self-serving, and nearly all wrong: what we need is knowledge, so we can perform our own triage on incoming information, and inspiration, to keep us progressing towards our goals.  And yes, I absolutely understand that massage is physically demanding, especially if you're working on muscular people.

Weight loss is great and I'm glad you're making progress!  Keep in mind that what we really want is fat loss and muscle gain.  A measuring tape is much more useful than a scale in that regard: one's waistline is generally an excellent gauge of progress (or lack thereof).  But it's most important that you feel great and have extra energy.  Anyone can starve themselves into leanness on any diet.

As I say in my FAQ, "Diet and exercise are just the first two steps of a long and joyous journey."  Welcome home.

May I ask how you managed to accidentally encounter TGC?

JS

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May 28, 2012
3:51 pm
Bury, Lancashire, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
May 22, 2012
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Hello,

I suppose it all depends on how you take the meaning of accidental. I mean, in this instance, "Occurring unexpectedly, unintentionally, or by chance". Rita and I run a small bed and breakfast and welcomed a lovely couple from Pulaski, Tennessee 2 years ago who arrived as guests and left as friends. George and I chatted on every imaginable subject for hours and hours one of which was 'hunter-gatherers' and their possible lifestyle. At the start of this year an unexpected package arrived from America, with a note simply saying, "Saw this and thought of you!" It was, of course, your book.

Something I'm not sure where to ask: How does Extra Virgin Olive Oil fit into the scheme of things with regard to oils/fats? I just love the stuff and use it constantly on salads.

Regards, David 

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May 29, 2012
12:32 am
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
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February 22, 2010
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ExVeggie:

That's a great story!

Extra virgin olive oil qualifies as food, as it's created by mechanically pressing olives, not by chemical extraction.  However, due to relatively high omega-6 content (~10%) and basically zero omega-3 content, I recommend it only as a condiment (i.e. salad dressing), not as a major component of my diet.  For cooking I use coconut oil, ghee, or beef tallow.

JS

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June 5, 2012
2:44 pm
Bury, Lancashire, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
May 22, 2012
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Olive Oil (extra virgin, ideally) has formed the main frying/cooking medium with me for some time. I dropped generally available oils some time ago. This side of the pond our standard cooking oils are described somewhat vaguely as vegetable oils, probably rapeseed/canola. Having read the various articles I went out and bought some beef dripping (I suspect that's what you called tallow) only a couple weeks ago and have found the taste superior, without a doubt. I've had a few failures with roasting potatoes with it though…can't get them crispy enough for my lady. And, she still likes her deep-fried stuff done in oil. Can't convert everyone instantly, I guess.

Can someone tell me if there are any discussion going on about health matters, as I have singularly failed to find any, so far. Existing health issues may be covered by standard medical opinion but I'm no longer certain I trust them when diet is involved as a solution.

Thanks for a new home JS.

David (ExVeggie)

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June 5, 2012
4:04 pm
First-Eater
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February 22, 2010
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David:

I've obtained great results by deep-frying with both tallow (yes, "beef dripping" is tallow) and, if you don't like the beefy taste, with refined coconut oil.  Refined coconut oil may help the potatoes, too, as it's somewhat "lighter" than tallow.

What do you mean by "discussion going on about health matters"?  Do you mean thoughts/advice on specific medical conditions?  If so, which?  To my knowledge, there isn't a central paleo clearinghouse for that...different authors have discussed different conditions at one time or another.

JS

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June 9, 2012
8:35 am
Bury, Lancashire, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
May 22, 2012
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Getting coconut oil is the first hurdle! But, it shall be done.

The question of health and health matters arises from both existing problems and unexpected reactions to going 'paleo'. I admit that that was very much a self-centred question.

Although I did Atkins about 10-12 years ago, for a while, I found it restricting and to have some large holes in the attitude towards some food groups. I did however manage to lose a lot of weight over about 9 months and felt better for it. As with taking up the paleo ideal, My body's reaction has been mixed. Talk about 'paleo flu'. Stomach did a lot of growling and rumbling for a few days; some radical body temperature changes (hot flushes); not taking my toasted breakfast straight off was a real tough step; my sleep patterns have been all over the place, and, most embarrassing of all, diarrhea. Admittedly, I think I understood what I had done wrong and managed to work which particular food was the culprit.

Still having occasional sleep problems with no apparent catalyst. I'm just hoping that everything will settle down very soon. IF, I can get my friends to realise that I'm not just being 'fussy' (as one put it) about food. Actually, I spread what I shall call, 'an acceptable truth', about being gluten intolerant and therefore unable to eat anything with grain in...that seems to be working!

I'm a bit concerned about supplements as I am on Warfarin as I had a DVT and PEs some time ago. I also take Glucosamine/Chondroitin, and, the fact that it contains the 'gluco' bit worries me a little.

I keep reading and re-reading hoping to find answers and understand more fully what is happening to my body. Add that to studying Kinesiology, and, building myself a new therapy room, I'm quite(?) busy.

All the best,

David

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June 9, 2012
8:39 am
Bury, Lancashire, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 10
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May 22, 2012
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I forgot to mention the idea of some people possibly having recently evolved to find wheat, etc., okay for them. John Adamo's book on the development and change in blood groups and the correlation between the advent of agricuture and Type A blood seems interesting.

David

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June 9, 2012
11:15 am
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
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February 22, 2010
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David:

Are you eating breakfast at all?  Breakfast skipping is usually more of an advanced technique, after you've been adapted for a while and genuinely aren't hungry...and some people always feel best with breakfast.

Any abrupt dietary shift can cause digestive distress, and I see two common sources when someone "goes paleo": an abrupt shift to a high-fat diet can cause a bit of trouble for someone having eating low-fat for many years (your pancreas and gallbladder need some time to catch up), and an insufficiently acid stomach caused by years of a low-meat diet can take some time to catch up.  The cure for the first is to moderate fat intake for a while: for the second, it's some HCl supplements and perhaps some digestive enzymes (meat tenderizer works fine and is quite cheap).

Don't be concerned about glucosamine: it's not free glucose.  Although if you're gluten-free it might not be doing you much good.  Warfarin is a blood-thinner, right?  You probably don't want to be taking huge amounts of fish oil, then...but the ELAP recommendations are relatively conservative.

Keep in mind that while certain groups of people are less poorly adapted to an agricultural diet (I've never had an overt issue with gluten grains), there's no adaptation AFAIK that changes the effect of gliadin fragments on gut permeability (i.e. "leaky gut").  Some MHCs are just less prone to creating autoimmune reactions from the results, and those have indeed been selected for.

JS

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June 9, 2012
1:22 pm
Halifax, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 365
Member Since:
June 5, 2011
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Hey David - Welcome aboard, mate!

Eating according to our instincts and impulses is a release. Guiding those impulses to real food is a joy!

You're just over the border from me (Halifax, UK) and I can tell you that Tesco carry a pure coconut oil in the more ethnic stores. There'll be one near you. Being a northern lad, I'm going to say this quite loud so you can here me from here (and I'm in Queensbury and can see the windfarm over Burnley from here!) ... WE HAVE DRIPPING!!!

Dripping is a light, hard fat. Dripping is our life-blood as northerners; we are the last bastion of real eating folks in our land and we have a duty to live right.

Cook with dripping.

To be absolutely honest, after a year or so of paleo eating, I'm slipping away from the fat, fat and more fat thing. I enjoy meat, however it is, but rarely add more fat. I do like to wet up my veggies with a little fat and I have a block of Britannia in the fridge along with a jar of coconut oil. Guess which goes down quickest :D

Here in the UK, we have an abundance of farm shops. Try not to read too much into things - J wrote a cracking article about anti-nutritionalism and it really struck a chord with me. Food is food! Do not deconstruct it! If you eat real food, that's all you need to know. Our farm shops are stocked with good meat and veggies - get some, put it together and enjoy.

'Eat Like a Predator' saves us from all those modern "fails" like nuts, seeds and other crap which we get anyway from eating meat. If you enjoy them, eat them. I often put pumpkin or squash seeds with cabbage because I like it. I often sprinkle pine nuts over and avocado because I like it.

Moving beyond paleo, into "gnoll" or the "Perfect Health Diet" or the "Free the Animal" way of thinking is about taking a template and applying it to your life. Principles guide us.

I'd say, drop the obsession about understanding how the water flows and just get rowing ... you can look at the scenery when you're not concentrating on the water ...

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Living in the Ice Age http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk
June 19, 2012
6:01 pm
Bury, Lancashire, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
May 22, 2012
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Mr J Stanton

No breakfast has very quickly become normal. After reading your article about it I had a 'light-bulb' moment when I realised the connection between having toast or cereals for brekkie and wanting more for the rest of the day. I was eating, at least, 2/3/4 slices of bread more as the day went by accompanied by overwhelming cravings for pastry, of any type. To not eat breakfast and find that the craving had gone was amazing and wonderful. Whatever else you suggest I do, going back to eating toast, or cereal, at breakfast time will not be acceptable. This one thing has freed me from the desire to 'have a snack' at any old time.

The problems I have had are little enough price to pay for the benefits of sticking to the suggested eating style. Firstly, I have been low-carb(ish) for some years, always choosing the fatty cuts but with a fair amount of chicken and pork and, no oily fish. The major problem appears be dinner with friends! One of whom is a slimming worlder and thinks everyone should do it. Another is a baker who believes that meat comes wrapped in a pie. I have use my 'acceptable truth' with funny results. My baker friend is having a hard time with that and the slimming world lady hasn't got a clue what gluten is or where it is. It's going to be a struggle with them. All that said, I haven't denied myself the occasional treat. I now believe my gut problem is associated with sugar as each bout of sleep disruption or diarrhea has followed an indulgence. Avoiding sugar has meant losing some of my favourite treats but, I shall persevere for the time being and hope the problems are a temporary 'flu'. Thanks for your comments.

Halifax

I found it! Not at the nearest Tesco, but I definitely found it. Some company calling themselves by a weird name...and talk about expensive, whoo! Can I save coconut oil and re-use it?

Living in a village has some advantages...we have a great butcher who sources locally reared grass-fed beef (and lamb), free-range chickens and eggs, and, who sells beef dripping. What's more he makes his own gluten-free sausages that are really something. His cheeses come from the same herds and we have recently started buying them as well.

I had to laugh when I asked Tesco's deli assistant for the ingredients list on some of their ham...every single one had added sugar!!!

It's good to know that there is someone else not too far away.

All the best, David

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June 23, 2012
12:27 pm
First-Eater
Forum Posts: 2105
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February 22, 2010
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ExVeggie:

If skipping breakfast works for you, then by all means keep doing it!  For breakfast eaters, I always recommend a high-protein, high-fat, low-carb breakfast, for the reasons you describe: carby breakfasts always seem to leave one hungry all day.

And yes, it's awkward socially for a while.  Don't worry about trying to 'convert' anyone else: just be comfortable with your own choices.  It's like quitting smoking, or drinking, or any other habit: the people you hang around who still indulge will try to get you to join them, because you always did before.  After a while they'll get the message.

If sugar causes you gut problems, I suspect SIBO might be an issue.  This should resolve itself over time as you feed the bacteria less bread, sugar, and other simple carbohydrates...and as SIBO usually goes along with acid reflux, you'll probably start to lose that too.  I recommend being strict about that particular avoidance for a while.

JS

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June 28, 2012
12:07 pm
Northern Ohio
Wanderer
Forum Posts: 2
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June 28, 2012
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Blood flows, fangs glisten! 

 

I came across your site while searching for recipes then all of a sudden I was reading the preview, then ordering the book, then devouring the book, then sitting back and digesting on a hot rock. 

The feeling of being trapped and not knowing EXACTLY what to do about it is maddening.  Wear a  loincloth, live in a ditch and hunt dogs and deer until they haul me away?  Chuck the current job and hope for a new position, which is really no more than a new cage with fresh wood chips? 

I know that freedom is defined by whatever is freedom to you and not someone else but after so many years of struggling for some kind of security (Funny that we are kept animals and still must struggle to survive?  The illusion of choice, I guess.) I read this and feel again I have gone completely the wrong way.  Willingly, completely, whole-heartedly and with no hesitation or doubt I have succeeded in being the FIRST one into the kill chute.

<sigh>

I'm grateful for this book, this story, this forum.  Now I know it is a matter of looking around, realizing how far off course I am, getting a new bearing and heading out in a new direction with all pistons firing. 

At least now I have already started eating Paleo in addition to walking a lot at work I'm starting yoga next week.  If I had not started all this I would not have been looking for recipes and would not have ended up coming this far.

Cheers.

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June 28, 2012
1:48 pm
Halifax, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 365
Member Since:
June 5, 2011
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Welcome home Tsavo!

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Living in the Ice Age http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk
June 28, 2012
5:22 pm
Cameron, Tx
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 35
Member Since:
September 24, 2011
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Tsavo: I felt trapped for a long time too. And when I read TGC, I felt worse-but then better. Much much better. It was like the final nail in the coffin for me. I was already paleo, but Gryka had taken all my thoughts I'd had since childhood and given them a voice and a personality. I quit my job, got my personal trainers license and moved to a different part of Texas to pursue this new life. It has been so difficult but so worth it. Ride the intensity out, let it become part of you and you'll amass great change in a very short period of time. Screw authority, mental conditioning, propaganda, and all the other self limiting factors that crop up(and have been forced on us to keep us in "our place").

You are right about the job thing-that's why I went independent. And if Obama thinks I'm signing up for insurance, well, he's sorely mistaken. Lol but that's material for another time....

I've said this a bunch on this forum but....the mental aspect of "paleo" is so damn important and TGC nails it. We need more than diet and exercise plans and ideas to really execute a lifestyle change and, most importantly, make it stick.

Good luck!

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June 30, 2012
9:40 pm
First-Eater
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February 22, 2010
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Tsavo:

The modern economy has finally exposed "job security" as a classic bait-and-switch: break yourself on behalf of the corporation now, for the promise of being taken care of by the corporation later.  (Which somehow never happens, unless you work for the federal government.  Even local governments are going bankrupt and defaulting on pension obligations.)  Even personal savings is no guarantee of safety, as the government/banking industry slowly inflates it away by creating money out of thin air to cover their own overspending and bad bets.  Heads they win, tails we lose.

We are all animals in the wild.  Cities and suburbs are wilderness, just like the jungle or the savanna.  They are full of predators and parasites and other dangers -- the only difference is that they all wear human skin.  And we all know that the entire system is crumbling and the center cannot hold.  

Our task is to find or create niches in which gnolls can survive, and to build something better out of the wreckage.  TGC is many different things and affords many different interpretations, and one of them is a survival manual: not of specific tasks, as those depend intimately upon local circumstances, but of readiness and understanding.

Welcome home.

PS: Yoga's fine to start with, but it's mostly an excuse to not exercise while pretending you're exercising.  If you really want to improve your quality of life, get strong by learning the basics of strength training, e.g. barbells, and improving your performance on the basic lifts.  (Kettlebells are also acceptable to start and as an adjunct -- but the only way to get strong is to lift heavy weights.)

DT:

Congratulations on your new life!

JS

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July 2, 2012
6:25 am
Northern Ohio
Wanderer
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
June 28, 2012
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Thanks Paul, Daniel and JS, it's good to be home.

 

Rats, I do work for the Federal government, just waiting here for the common mediocrity to take me over like most of the others.  I could say it was the fatalism of a big grazer while the pack tears it apart but there is no bloody ending, just walking slower and slower until you die.

 

I'm the only one that can deliver myself from this sorry fate.  Doing what I need to do and ignoring how it may make others uncomfortable.

 

Cheers.

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July 2, 2012
8:36 am
Cameron, Tx
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 35
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September 24, 2011
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JS: "They are full of predators and parasites and other dangers — the only difference is that they all wear human skin."

This is a fantastic point and one of the ways modern life is discordant with what it means to be a human. There ARE many predators and parasites and it's sometimes hard to tell who is a threat and who is not. There's very little community anymore. Sure, tribes used to(still do) wage war on each other, but at least they would've know who their enemy actually was. Not so much today.

The instincts are still there, though. And that's another one the govt takes advantage of in creating enemies that dont truly exist. Humans still need the hunt and we still need to bind together around a common cause. Just not against each other to the extent it is done today.

Our common enemies used to be hunger, the elements, rival tribes, and other predatory animals. Now those things have been relegated to the fringe of our efforts in exchange for basically anything else the govt and mass media can make up to replace them. Makes me sick.

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July 8, 2012
12:22 pm
First-Eater
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February 22, 2010
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Tsavo:

There are advantages to a government job with seniority in these uncertain times.  Gnolls have no concept of nobility or redemption through suffering: you survive however you can.  Revenge and other bold gestures are for your time of haouka.

That being said, if it's truly sapping your will to live, do what you must.  But it's best to carefully investigate your alternatives beforehand so you know what you're trading for.  Exchanging one form of wage-slavery for another less-secure version is a downgrade...unless you're doing something you enjoy much more, or working much less.

DT:

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

-Hermann Goering

JS

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July 11, 2012
9:03 am
Pensacola, Florida
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 13
Member Since:
April 26, 2012
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Welcome home, Tsavo!

 

JS -  thanks for the reminder of Goering's words.  I, too, am a student of history, and see so many parallels from today's events to the past.  So much of our modern society in so called "first world" countries is reminding me of the end times of the Pax Romana.  Including our Government/corporate partnership pushing "Bread for the masses" in the form of GMO foods and grain-based everything.  I also appreciate your point that our job, now that we have come home, is to create awareness and pockets of survival for when the end, inevitably, comes.

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