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11:33 am
QuoteEddie - http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/142427.php
You are right, but we still don't know WHY..and it's not because there is no meat in the diet..one truth is the fact that we do have a decreased risk in all other cancers. Red meat also increased risk of colon cancer and alot of you paleos do red meat on a regular basis. Question is what is it that's causing an increase risk in colon cancer in vegetarians..interesting find. I wish I can say meat will help solve that problem for us, lol but we know that's not the case.
5:56 am
re-read your reply as it makes no sense.
"we still don’t know WHY..and it’s not because there is no meat in the diet.."
we cannot know why and yet simultaneously know that it is not because of no meat in the diet.
". Red meat also increased risk of colon cancer"
this cannot be true if people who eat no red meat get more than their fair (or average i suppose) share of colon cancer.
cognitive dissonance.
"I wish I can say meat will help solve that problem for us, lol but we know that’s not the case."
again we do not *know* this at all.
as to why, i do not know. we cannot very easily test this either.
the number of confounding variables in these sorts of studies are simply staggering.
youtube big fat fiasco for an explanation as to why confounding variables are a massive issue and the weakness of correlation studies like these.
bear in mind: correlation does not equal causation.
but lack of correlation is a fair assumption that causation is absent.
or, in other words, if red meat caused colon cancer we'd see very few vegetarians and vegans suffering from colon cancer, the opposite is true, which is pretty clear that red meat does not cause colon cancer.
as for meat byproducts sticking to insides:when it leaves stomach it is chyme, which is a combination of protein and fats.
what about vegetable proteins and fats (or plantbased if you prefer)?
how do we know those do not stick to the walls as you suggest?
6:05 am
as a total aside though: i'm glad you are better now, i don't think anyone is debating that "some people" are better without meat.
the problem comes with statements like "i am better without x/y/z in my diet, therefore everyone should eat like me or they will die!!!!!!!1111"
my family all have degrees of dairy issues (casein, lactose, whey even), wheat issues and the gods only know what else.
but not everyone has these issues.
3:56 pm
Man is this a crazy comment section. JS you really felt sorry for the lady because she has a step-daughter who wants to be vegan. I would love for you to watch this video and learn a little more about what meat does. (Link to Youtube video)
Its called uprooting the leading causes of death. I have tried to stick to a raw vegan diet but its not an easy thing to do in this world. But i did stick with it for a while or at least 85-95% raw for a few months and i felt the best i ever have in my life when i was getting all the good stuff like spinach and flax seeds. But than i started to not eat as much raw and ate a little more meat and my energy levels have gone down for sure. I am not as happy as i was when i was eating raw. And my bowel movements are way better than they have ever been in my life. The healthiest people in the world are vegan. And when you talked about the guy who lived till 83 only eating meat. Well the meat the average person eats today is just crap and you must know that. I can agree organic grass fed proper life would be a lot healthier than what the average eat. Also when eating as healthy as i have i have only been sick one times in the last 1.5-2 years and the last times was 2 weeks ago and i was eating kinda crappy. Just my two cents
7:50 am
not JS but i will watch the video tonight...i am sure it will be hilarious.
8:27 am
Some perspective on Dr. Greger:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/
10:52 am
Eddie, Meat does cause colon cancer..forget about the color of the meat. There are numerous studies all over that show this...
#2 I did some more research about the subject, and it turns out that one possibility might be from vegetarians who are not on an organic diet..because they are consuming alot of herbicides/pesticides etc. Raw vegans and anyone eating 100% organic i highly doubt are the ones with a higher risk of colon cancer..it just does not make sense..MEAT IS THE KILLER HERE...not fruits and veggies my man.
#3 the video Daniel posted is on point, not hilarious. You cavemen are all backwards actually telling your self that meat is really healthy for you despite all of the studies, all of the evidence to back it up. at the end of the day this is just an argument between cavemen and the rest of us.
11:02 am
June 5, 2011
Offline
... anyone else smell it? BS? The weight of evidence is against any modern data - over 2.5 million years where if it was true that meat was not suitable, let alone outright dangerous, for human existence, we'd have stopped eating it ... erm ... years ago. It really is that simple.
Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk
6:08 pm
February 22, 2010
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Alex:
First, let me be clear: feel free to eat whatever makes you happy. The purpose of this article isn't to convince you to eat meat: it's to convince you that "meat rots in your colon" is a myth, and therefore not an argument to be used against eating meat.
"As far as digestion goes, I would really like to know where you are pulling your science from because we are going to need alot more literature to actually prove we can digest meat."
I've linked all my references in the article: it's basic, uncontroversial human physiology, taught in any introductory course, and verified experimentally since at least the 1840s.
For example, see the "Mean Time Of Digestion" table on page 292 of this book, describing the 19th century experiments of William Beaumont on Alexis St. Martin, whose unhealed gunshot wound to the stomach allowed Dr. Beaumont to directly examine Alexis' stomach contents and figure out exactly how long various foods took to digest! (Between 1 and 2.5 hours for everything from pigs' feet to parsnips.)
More information on the Beaumont experiments can be found here.
" I’ve seen plenty of people do colonics and pass meat waste that has been in their colons their entire life."
I call bull feathers on that. A google search for "colonoscopy pictures" shows lots of pink tissue, with nary a meat chunk to be found. (I do recall seeing at least one corn kernel, though, and quite a few polyps and cancers.) As I said above, the pictures of "mucoid plaque" look suspiciously like a mixture of psyllium husk and bentonite clay, squeezed into strange shapes by the spasming of a colon experiencing laxative overdose. Add to that some necrosed pieces of the mucosal layer of your intestinal lumen (the yellowish "chicken skin"), and you're proving only that it's possible to slough off pieces of the only thing protecting you from enteric bacteria and food toxins if you kill it by scouring it hard enough with enough indigestible fiber.
"I have not heard of anyone curing sickness or disease through a high meat eating diet (such as the paleo diet)."
You're not looking very hard. Mark Sisson alone features over 100 success stories just from his own readership. There are dozens scattered throughout the comments on this site alone, and I personally know people who have freed themselves from gout, arthritis, allergies, and/or over 60 extra pounds!
"Explain how vegetarians and vegans or people who eat less meat in general have way healthier colons?"
They don't. As I linked above:
Am J Clin Nutr May 2009 vol. 89 no. 5 1620S-1626S Cancer incidence in vegetarians: results from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Oxford). Timothy J Key, Paul N Appleby, Elizabeth A Spencer, Ruth C Travis, Andrew W Roddam, and Naomi E Allen
"The incidence rate ratio for colorectal cancer in vegetarians compared with meat eaters was 1.39 (95% CI: 1.01, 1.91)."
Go here for more information: Carnosine, Colons, and Cancer
"If we truly digested meat we wouldn’t have any left overs clinging to our colon walls."
I've presented both pictorial and experimental evidence that it does not. You'll also have to explain how our ancestors have been eating meat for at least 3.4 million years while being unable to digest it.
eddie:
Stop confusing the poor guy with facts...he's already made his decision.
More soon.
JS
6:15 pm
February 22, 2010
Offline
Alex:
First, let me be clear: feel free to eat whatever makes you happy. The purpose of this article isn't to convince you to eat meat: it's to convince you that "meat rots in your colon" is a myth, and therefore not an argument to be used against eating meat.
"As far as digestion goes, I would really like to know where you are pulling your science from because we are going to need alot more literature to actually prove we can digest meat."
I've linked all my references in the article: it's basic, uncontroversial human physiology, taught in any introductory course, and verified experimentally since at least the 1840s.
For example, see the "Mean Time Of Digestion" table on page 292 of this book, describing the 19th century experiments of William Beaumont on Alexis St. Martin, whose unhealed gunshot wound to the stomach allowed Dr. Beaumont to directly examine Alexis' stomach contents and figure out exactly how long various foods took to digest! (Between 1 and 2.5 hours for everything from pigs' feet to parsnips.)
More information on the Beaumont experiments can be found here.
" I’ve seen plenty of people do colonics and pass meat waste that has been in their colons their entire life."
I call bull feathers on that. A google search for "colonoscopy pictures" shows lots of pink tissue, with nary a meat chunk to be found. (I do recall seeing at least one corn kernel, though, and quite a few polyps and cancers.) As I said above, the pictures of "mucoid plaque" look suspiciously like a mixture of psyllium husk and bentonite clay, squeezed into strange shapes by the spasming of a colon experiencing laxative overdose. Add to that some necrosed pieces of the mucosal layer of your intestinal lumen (the yellowish "chicken skin"), and you're proving only that it's possible to slough off pieces of the only thing protecting you from enteric bacteria and food toxins if you kill it by scouring it hard enough with enough indigestible fiber.
"I have not heard of anyone curing sickness or disease through a high meat eating diet (such as the paleo diet)."
You're not looking very hard. Mark Sisson alone features over 100 success stories just from his own readership. There are dozens scattered throughout the comments on this site alone, and I personally know people who have freed themselves from gout, arthritis, allergies, and/or over 60 extra pounds!
"Explain how vegetarians and vegans or people who eat less meat in general have way healthier colons?"
They don't. As I linked above:
Am J Clin Nutr May 2009 vol. 89 no. 5 1620S-1626S Cancer incidence in vegetarians: results from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Oxford). Timothy J Key, Paul N Appleby, Elizabeth A Spencer, Ruth C Travis, Andrew W Roddam, and Naomi E Allen
"The incidence rate ratio for colorectal cancer in vegetarians compared with meat eaters was 1.39 (95% CI: 1.01, 1.91)."
Go here for more information: Carnosine, Colons, and Cancer
"If we truly digested meat we wouldn’t have any left overs clinging to our colon walls."
I've presented both pictorial and experimental evidence that it does not. You'll also have to explain how our ancestors have been eating meat for at least 3.4 million years while being unable to digest it.
eddie:
Stop confusing the poor guy with facts...he's already made his decision.
More soon.
JS
6:43 pm
February 22, 2010
Offline
daniel:
I don't get my knowledge from videos, because it's so easy to misrepresent the facts when one can't easily click on links to Pubmed. As Dr. Harriet Hall said in the article Alex linked:
"These videos tend to fall into an easily recognizable pattern. They feature a charismatic scientist with an agenda who makes sweeping statements that go beyond the evidence, makes unwarranted assumptions about the meaning of studies, and omits any reference to contradictory evidence. I recognized this pattern by briefly sampling the video, and my initial opinion was only confirmed by watching it in toto." -Dr. Harriet Hall
The article itself lists several excellent examples -- but the commenters catch some even more blatant factual distortions by Dr. Greger. Personally, I can't be bothered...trying to debunk deliberately deceptive YouTube videos is like trying to hold back the ocean with a blue tarp and some rebar.
eddie:
Exactly. I'm happy to let people eat whatever they want...but the veg*ans don't seem to extend me the same courtesy!
Alex:
Great find. Thank you.
Ray:
"Eddie, Meat does cause colon cancer..forget about the color of the meat. There are numerous studies all over that show this…"
Except for the ones that don't, one of which I linked above.
Paul:
As we've seen, one can design a study to prove just about anything...and with millions of studies to choose from, one can cherry-pick a few sentences to say basically anything you want.
I, too, feel much more secure working within our evolutionary context. Other things may or may not be healthful...but that which shaped us from chimplike tree-dwellers with 350cc brains into modern humans is probably the way to bet!
JS
6:55 pm
Ray,
You need to let it go. You as an individual may not be able to process meat. Just because it is true for you, doesn't mean its true for all. Just like everything on this site. There are NO blanket meal plans. For every food, there are people who cannot eat it. So, instead of feeling insecure about someone having an information contrary to what you have found works for you, why don't you just agree that meat doesn't work for you. That's fine. Humans are, indisputably, evolved to eat meat. You can live fine without it. To much of it can make you sick, like anything else. Much meat is tainted. Hormones. Toxins. Antibiotics. Etc etc etc but impurities apply to ALL food sources in this polluted toxic hell of a world industrialization has caused. Your views are not exempt. But THAT is another conversation altogether. Any further nonsense you post is just seen as trolling.
12:57 pm
February 22, 2010
Offline
Jay:
I find it amusing that veg*ans find it immoral to eat meat -- but consuming a diet consisting almost entirely of herbicide and pesticide-soaked, genetically modified products of petroleum-based industrial agriculture is just fine. I'm supporting local ranchers...they're supporting Monsanto, ADM, Cargill, and all the rest of the industrial food system required to turn birdseed into semi-edible hormone disrupters like "soy milk".
(As a vegan, you can buy all the organic veggies you want, but vegetables contain very little food energy...your calories are coming from soy, corn, wheat, and other birdseed -- and perhaps bananas.)
JS
11:49 am
aw the trolls (or vegetrollians) have slowed down 🙁
need to go elsewhere for my amusement now!
i've also noticed the number of silly/spurious CICO fanatics have not shown up for the latest installments on the subject.
shame!
3:58 am
"This fact alone proves that humans, while omnivores, are primarily carnivorous".
This is false. Humans are NOT primarily carnivorous.
While I recongnize that humans CAN eat meat (and I'm a vegetarian), writing that they carnivorous is just wrong. Our digestive system is very similar to the apes (which are our closest cousins), and apes are primarily vegetarians, some of them being omnivores due to environmental conditions. This is also science by the way. Humans evolved differently, that's true, but still : we are a kind of primates, in which there are no carnivores (with the exception of the tarsiers which are primarily insectivorous), and our digestive system (including teeth) is closer to vegetarians rather than canorivores.
We are omnivores because we managed to settle almost everywhere on this planet, including in parts of the world where only meat/fish was available. We are omnivores, because evolution gave us a greater range of adaptation to diffent environments. In other words : depending on opportunity.
I think it's good you try to debunk a myth, even vegetarian ones, but what's the point if you do it by giving credit to another one?
It would have been better to write that we are primarily omnivores.
I also think it's false to write that food of any kind "rots" in our digestive system. We digest food. There a several types of digestion, including with help of bacterias, from which we get nutriments by the way! Writing that vegetable food rots in the belly is just not true : we get vitamins, minerals and even proteins from them, this is not the definition of roting!
Excrements are the result of the nutriments we can't process, and even meat produces waste! Not to mention that digestion DO produce flatulence, which is merely a natural process of ANY kind of digestion.
12:54 am
February 22, 2010
Offline
chassezac:
No, our guts are NOT similar to ape guts. There's plenty of veggie propaganda, but the archaeological evidence is solid: meat provided the overwhelming majority of our calories during evolutionary time, most particularly during the Paleolithic, where selection pressure for the ability to hunt, kill, defend, and digest meat changed our ancestors from little 65-pound savanna apes with 350cc brains into modern humans.
Michael Ben-Dor's AHS 2013 presentation isn't up yet, but his slides are here. I'll link the video once it's up.
JS
7:22 pm
You are not a Doctor. Your information is not credible and you are not a credible source yourself. This blog should immediately be taken off the internet due to its misleading information. I am leaving a website here from a real Doctor who explains the truth that MEAT ROTS in your intestines while taking 2-3 days to digest. Where as, fruits and vegetables only take up to twelve hours to digest. For more credible information, please go to Google scholar and do your research using credible up to date medical journals from experts who actually do the research. Everyone please email the sites moderator, to have this fraud removed.
Also, for your information, I am not a vegetarian. I'm just tired of reading the tons of bull crap like this, that look professional. leaving innocent readers with a false impression.
7:24 pm
You are not a Doctor. Your information is not credible and you are not a credible source yourself. This blog should immediately be taken off the internet due to its misleading information. I am leaving a website here from a real Doctor who explains the truth that MEAT ROTS in your intestines while taking 2-3 days to digest. Where as, fruits and vegetables only take up to twelve hours to digest. For more credible information, please go to Google scholar and do your research using credible up to date medical journals from experts who actually do the research. Everyone please email the sites moderator, to have this fraud removed.
Also, for your information, I am not a vegetarian. I'm just tired of reading the tons of bull crap like this, that look professional. leaving innocent readers with a false impression.
http://www.oprah.com/health/Facing-the-FAQs
3:09 am
I am unsure if this a hilarious joke (it links to Oprah!) or a post by a vegan pretending to be otherwise. It did take John two attempts to get the link up, so I'm guessing vegan.
No. This has to be a joke.
Everyone should get their dietary advice from a fat bitch and a guy who wears his scrubs on TV so we can tell he's a real doctor.
8:31 am
All this is wonderful information and very informative as far as how the intestines work what it doesnt support on any level is just because a food is digestible, its affects on the health and well being of the person that eats it. There are numerous studies that show both the long term health benefits to the heart and the digestive system of people that consume large amounts of vegetables vs what the health of those on a high animal based diet. We know that heart disease and cancers thrive on high meat/milk based diets whereas vegetarians (vegans) have healthier cleaner digestion because of all that stuff that doesnt digest and cleans out the bowels etc. Maybe in a perfect world where meat and milk were different than they are now before the advent of corn fed high fat hormone laden animals, a meat based diet was healthier..but with the food sources we eat today....they are the fertilizer that feeds ill in our bodies
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