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Vegans Are Cannibals: The Truth Behind The "New Vegan High"
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November 2, 2012
4:01 am
Indiana
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 37
Member Since:
September 20, 2012
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I can't see into the future since from my present point of view, I experience time in a linear fashion.  So, I can't argue with your 'futureman' point of view. There's probably a logical fallacy type that covers that, but I got the logical fallacy reference in your next sentence: the No True Scotsman logical fallacy. (Did I win something?)

 

J. did tell people how to cook a standing rib roast properly, it's linked from the Index (Start Here) at the top of this page *points upwards*.   (also gravlax and how to scramble up eggs, meat, spices, and vegetables/starches into a wonderful breakfast/lunch/dinner thingie)   

 

You, as an ethical vegan, probably extend your stance to extend to buying from farmers and not 'companies' and so you may like his Real Food Is Not Fungible: How Commoditization Eliminates Nutrition, Impoverishes Farmers, and Destroys The Earth article.

November 30, 2012
11:07 am
Katherine
Guest

@Elle

"Most people don’t realize how many vegans/vegetarians that surround them, because most of us are healthy."

Vegetarians are in a minority. Vegans make up no more than 2% of the population. The issue is that most quit after a while, because there is something about the diet that doesn't work for them. I have never heard of a survey that determined how many raw vegans there are, but it is very likely that the ones who are able to do so perpetually are extreme genetic outliers.

December 27, 2012
8:33 pm
Cobs
Guest

Up from a skinny a 55 to 65kg male in four years of vegan diet and still healthier than ever, think I would have noted any of this nonsense by now if it were true.
Amusing, none the less, that someone would go through all the trouble of writing this bull if something weren't bothering them, and rightly so,,, as a meat diet should.

February 8, 2013
8:59 am
Palesa
Guest

This sounds like complete Bull shit to me to be honest . reading it just seemed like you'd never actually met a vegan. i am and i am not weak and i am not bone skinny. i do not have these so called juice fasts and i eat very healthily. just because someone does not eat meat, does not mean they eat "rabit food". it just goes to show you've never even thought about what foods we do actually eat. i definitly don't feel board of my food let alone malnurished. Also, i am the only vegan let alone vegitarian out of all my freinds and family and i don't try to force my opinions on them at all!!. Also just to clarify, vegans don't just eat superfoods they eat alot of cake too. And by your statement " we want you to come home" implies that you are uable to see vegans as fellow human beings. vegans.dom't just sit around saying "give me vegetables and seeds" they actually have..lives and jobs :/ and all kinds of interests. theres so much else i could have in commen with someone like the fact that i like composing music and i have a passion and flair ( flicks hair) for languages My russian teacher is big on her meat but neither one of us cares at all because well theres so an more other things to talk about . I never choose my relationships on who eats what. Grow up and go meet some vegans before you write bullshit like this again

March 15, 2013
5:37 pm
Cat
Guest

Hi, very interesting article with a lot of good points - I kind of count myself as a raw foodist rather than a raw vegan because I am not in full agreement with ethical veganism. I think people should eat what they feel best eating. There are some problems for some people with meat, and there are the same issues with veganism. I have suspected for some time that it depends on where you live, and more importantly where your ancestors came from. Knowing that Hindus, for example, have high rates of diabetes and heart disease, and are now genetically predisposed to same, suggests that fat and carbohydrate together are really what cause health issues, rather than whether you are capable of planning your vegan diet adequately enough. Over the last three years I have experimented with what I ate, and now find that I really only crave animal products (either eggs or fish usually) once every three months - and I am from a country which has lived on what it could catch, rather than what it could grow, for centuries. I did very well as a low carber, but I look and feel better primarily raw vegan with a small percentage lapse. I think if a larger number of people could accept this on both sides of the argument - that for colder countries in particular, the probability is that you are more likely to 'need' the occasional animal product but that by and large more vegetables and non-animal products are a good idea for both the animal and your health (rather than making it a perennial ethical war), the argument might elevate beyond mud slinging over the same topics again and again.

March 29, 2013
2:39 am
kefcorp
Guest

Great article. I like that most of the angry vegans who turned up to comment about it are all about the anecdotal evidence and correlation-does-not-equal-causation. Such common fallacies 🙁 I am sure veganism might work for a subset of the population, but it is very much NOT how we evolved as Homo sapiens sapiens. You would have to ignore pretty much all legitimate research into the topic to come to the conclusion that we aren't suited to eat meat.

Anyway, Mr. Stanton, keep up the great work. It's refreshing to see someone blogging about something (potentially) controversial who actually does his homework.

April 4, 2013
2:59 pm
Megan
Guest

This article is really quite offensive. I was vegan for 2.5 years- and never had these health issues you so fervently have described. I had more energy than I've ever had in my life! It really is wonderful. The mistake I think that you're describing is that a lot of uneducated newbie vegans malnourish themselves by only eating the yummy vegan treats. I took supplements to get my extra calcium, D3 and essential nutrients. I also ate the right kinds of protein (stayed away from soy) and still ate a very balanced diet of veggies, fruits, legumes and rice. I never hit a crashing point. 🙂 I did however miss eggs the entire time- they're actually the perfect food (nutrition wise) and so I ethically sourced eggs and am not a vegetarian without any processed dairy. It is completely do-able to be a healthy vegan! I have tons of friends who have been vegan for a decade and are the healthiest happiest people that I know.

April 14, 2013
10:38 am
Brooke
Guest

There is a difference between a normal vegan diet and the many so called "vegan" diets which advocate calorie restriction as a way to lose weight. As someone who became vegan for ethical reasons weight loss was never my goal, at 98 pounds that would have been absolutely insane. So I never experienced the so called vegan high (this was also because I was accidentally vegetarian before going vegan, I was eating pasture raised animal products but could rarely afford $15 a pound steak)or detox. I did however experience the type of starvation you are referring to when due to stress and anxiety I almost stopped eating altogether and I did lose weight. High is not what I would call it. More like a living hell, as I struggled with depression and horrible, horrible insomnia and began to question my reality. When people see me now as a healthy, happy vegan it is because I'm eating enough calories to sustain me through the day and tons of fruit which literally make you high as sugar has an opiate effect. Contrary to popular belief eating a ton of carbs has not caused me to gain weight beyond what my normal or average weight is, partly because if your eating carbs you have a TON of energy. Your literally bouncing off the walls.

In the 3 years since I have been vegan I have never lost a tooth or missed a period. What your describing are the effects of starvation, not a vegan diet. To the contrary I find myself randomly doing pretty physical things, like while visiting my brother biking 14 miles or hiking for several hours up a mountain or doing 20-30 push ups or doing a pretty intense Zumba class without an issue. Heck, just living my day to day life in a second floor apartment I end up hiking up the stairs with laundry or groceries that are more then half my body weight and I can do this pretty easily. My brother has been vegan for 8 years and bikes 14 miles a day. Then you have people like Durian Rider (aka Harvey Jonestone) that are vegan athletes, ultra runners like Mike Arnstein, numerous upon numerous vegans that are obviously thriving.

April 14, 2013
6:12 pm
Sydney
Immigrant
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
January 4, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Brooke said:

...bikes 14 miles a day. Then you have people like Durian Rider (aka Harvey Jonestone) that are vegan athletes, ultra runners like Mike Arnstein, numerous upon numerous vegans that are obviously thriving

 

 

You lost me at Durian Rider...the man is definitely not a good example..I think he has lost the plot so to speak..and I put this down to his diet..but if it works for you ..please go ahead.

April 29, 2013
12:47 pm
Primal Nutritionist
Guest

You had me at cannibal!

-Great read.

May 17, 2013
12:20 pm
BillZimm
Guest

This is a great discussion. I have a lot to contribute. After suffering seventeen sudden disorders including high blood pressure prostate cancer and allergies out of nowhere I was certainly taking a nose dive to death... My doctors immediately jumped on that gravy train recommending all kinds of drugs therapies and surgeries! Instead I turned to the gold standard The Gerson Therapy to rebuild my body and detox. I also used MMS (Master Mineral Suplement) and strapped myself in for 18 months of both. I emerged fantastically healthy with all symptoms including migrains ringing in the ears and depressive thinking completely gone. I kept most of the diet going and have added all kinds of interesting vegetable dishes, raw and cooked to my diet. But when my body craves meat with fist pounding insistence I do not deny myself. The body speaks to us and we must listen. Occasional meat is fine. But occasional, in my life it will stay. Wouldn't you think this to be reasonable? A mostly raw plant based living diet is so great. Juicing fresh vegetables from your garden is so life giving and so protective of so many boy systems I can not list how many ways it works, but if you crave something, it is hardly humane to deny it, especially if it is a deep craving. I am all for the humane treatment of animals and yes I avoid beef and pork because of the abysmal lives these dear earthlings are subjected to under our unnecessarily cruel systems that we have created for them. And yes I believe a plant based diet can work for most people but there will always be people for which it does not work and we should never judge them. I believe in adaptation based on honest evaluation of genuine needs. But I challenge anyone who judge vegetarians and vegans as being weak when most of them I know are strong as hell physically and mentally. This includes myself. We're do you get your data?

June 26, 2013
9:48 am
kay
Guest

I've been vegan for 10+ years, vegetarian for 5 years before that - always eating healthy, not one of the vegans who just eats pasta. Due to a year-long stint of nearly no sleep, high stress, and a departure from healthy eating (final year of college, working multiple jobs, sleeping 4 hours a night because that's all I had time for), I was diagnosed with hereditary Type 2 diabetes (no, I was not overweight). Graduated, lost the stressors, went back to healthy vegan eating, and sleeping regularly - my blood sugar is under control, I lost some weight, and once again feel great. I recently had a full panel of blood work done, and I'm not lacking in a single thing. There's nothing that could ever convince me that I need meat in my diet. Eating the right amounts of the right foods (well balanced), exercise, living stress-free and sleeping well agree with me.
I do believe that everyone's body is different, and some can't function properly eating vegan. I couldn't handle meat/dairy. After I went vegan, all of my multiple allergies went away, I could handle being outdoors again without feeling like I would die, I lost a few pounds (from cutting out the dairy that I had been overdoing), my skin looked better, and I no longer get horrible menstrual cramps (but am as regular as regular can be - no skipped months here). I am healthy. It's not for everyone, but eating meat isn't for everyone either. there is no perfect diet that suits everyone's needs - but I'm sure that the typical SAD diet isn't proper for anyone.

June 26, 2013
11:44 am
Andreea
Guest

Wow. How many times have I tried vegetarianism? Juice fasts? Fought with my parents about being vegetarian. I honestly still feel bad for the animals and how they are treated. Nothing will change my mind about that. But I could never deny the constant craving for a burger. This has opened my mind to a new way of viewing my diet.

July 21, 2013
5:44 pm
The Skinny
Guest

My husband was a card-carrying PETA member and vegetarian since the age of 15 when I met him in his 32nd year. Obviously, he eschewed it for ethical reasons. Being Dutch, he certainly grew up eating lots of meat and he missed eel and herring the most.

I'm from Texas myself, and having one of the most outrageous metabolisms on the planet (see my website), I was not at all interested in such a diet. Also, I was born and raised in an agricultural community, so I knew that it was possible to farm animals humanely and felt it was important to support such farms.

I have always had a difficult time maintaining my weight even within the range of 30 pounds below average for my height, but over the first several years of our marriage I found myself losing even more ground and frequently struggling to stay above 40 pounds underweight. This was for the simple fact that it was easier for us to share meals, and since my husband was that rare breed of vegetable-hating vegetarian, this was generally an awfully poor meal in terms of nutrition. Lots of pasta/carbs (which I simply burn, and he stores as fat), fake meats, etc.

Because we both work within the field of life extension science we always keep up on dietary news and supporting evidence for health claims of particular diets. By last year the evidence in favor of a primal diet was so overwhelming that my husband quit vegetarianism...after 21 years. And he is definitely feeling and looking all the better for it.

Things weren't so straightforward for me. After a couple of months on a quite low-carb paleo diet (again...sharing meals), I had an alarming cardiac event during which my blood pressure (usually around 100/65) spiked to 200/100 and I developed an ongoing case of heart palpitations which did not stop until I added carbs back into my diet. Which makes sense, if you consider my extreme metabolism. Now I make sure to get plenty of "good" (complex) carbs and have started weight training in order to give the protein I consume something to do. I am currently about 25 lbs underweight and still making great progress in building muscle. Most importantly, I feel incredible and have not had any further scary cardiac events.

Just remember: NO DIET is one-size-fits-all. Please, get to know your body and what it needs. If you can afford to do so, guide your efforts with frequent blood work in order to determine what your deficiencies are instead of supplementing something because you're "supposed" to. And try to correct deficiencies through natural means (diet, sun exposure, etc.) alone before supplementing. And you know, all the usuals that really ARE good for everyone -- avoid chronic, unrelenting stress, get plenty of exercise, and adequate sleep. Your body and brain will thank you.

August 19, 2013
1:02 pm
Beat Brunschwiler
Guest

Facts and statistic, among them the china study, are very clear.
The choice is up to each one of us.
There is lots of missleading information like this blog post out there, with no base or reference to any objective studies conducted who suggest that an animal based diet is not producing cancer!

September 6, 2013
8:10 pm
Chelsea
Guest

I have been a vegetarian for 2 years so far i feel just fine....i think the vegetarians/vegans you are talking about are doing it wrong. Im sure everything you saying is a fact but i learned to replace B12 and other vitamins im missing, i am a healthy vegetarian and im working on bieng vegan. You just have to do it right or dont do it at all. I wont ever eat meat again main reason for the treatment of animals and i want to make the environment better.

September 8, 2013
7:19 am
Meagan
Guest

Hahahaha. I thought this was going to be a satirical article and found it hilarious. Until I realized the author was serious and probably has done no thorough research whatsoever into the other side of the argument. What a waste of time.

October 31, 2013
8:35 pm
Steve
Guest

Ex-vegetarian here, 17 years, 3 of them vegan.

Things went great for me until I turned 30 years old, then it was just continuous, unstoppable weight gain. Eventually I became pre-diabetic and was continually exhausted.

I started eating meat and my weight stabilized and I regained a bit of vitality, but did not burn off any fat.

Then I started using a blood sugar meter regularly and saw that I respond poorly to carbohydrates of any form, not to mention alcohol.

Now I am on a high-fat diet largely-consisting of butter, egg yolks, liver, 100% chocolate, mushrooms, and spinach with little bits of things like bell peppers and berries. My blood sugar has fallen back to healthy levels, I am losing fat rapidly while maintaining strength, and I have tons of energy like I felt back in my 20s.

December 13, 2013
2:56 pm
Freshtone
Guest

This is idiotic, to put it very nicely. I cut out meat 24 years ago and have been fully vegan for 20 years. I feel better now than I ever have. I'm also 6'4", 230 lbs... Your "losing muscle mass" statement is incredibly laughable, as well as your opinion and extremely flawed and inaccurate science. Do some ACTUAL research before writing and publishing, please.

January 22, 2014
3:10 am
Ana
Guest

So commenters have mentioned both autophagy and hormesis as processes of death eating itself (reapsorption and eliminating tumors, cancers etc.). I have read about autolysis too. I'm not going to ask what is the difference, because I have just googled it and have to yet read it. What I want to say is that this is a veeery interesting subject and I think that it should be paid more attention by all of us. It may be mother nature's most supreme cure.

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