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You Are A Radical, And So Am I: Paleo Reaches The Ominous "Stage 3"
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June 26, 2011
11:37 am
Stephen
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I agree with what your saying, but thought I'd correct your misunderstanding of the Labour Theory of Value.

The theory actually talks about socially *necessary* labour time. And if you do some further reading, you will see that such a notion is not at odds with the coat rack example you gave.

I would also highly recommend this famous letter of Marx to Kugelmann:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1868/letters/68_07_11.htm

June 26, 2011
2:12 pm
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First-Eater
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February 22, 2010
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Stephen:

Yes...but who decides what's socially "necessary"?  

JS

July 12, 2011
10:12 am
Big Daddy T
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BEGIN QUOTE
As far as your son and dealing with people trying to feed him junk, respectfully decline. ”We don't eat that stuff.” When they ask why, ask them “Why do you eat it?” Turn the situation around: they're the ones that need to justify their choices to you.
END QUOTE

And when you do that, and they spout the typical Vegangelical (those angry, hard core, unwlling-to-discuss-any-other-way vegans), ADA, balanced diet, China Study, grain subsidized stances.... Where do you take the conversation then?

You should eat their way (just like they should eat yours?), and when you reject that and have THEM justify their eating habits, and they "do"...then what? Perhaps an article on that?

Turning it around is great. But the SAD, or worse, a Vegangelical diet, are the 'majority'. (I know the percents on vegans nationally is small, but vegetarians and vegans are FAR more accepted than us "low carb heathens".) And yes, I use religious terms because it is a religion to most. And with that mindset, nothing I am going to say is going to convince them they need to drop their religion and join mine. (be it Roman Catholic, or the House of Porterhouse)

So what is the next step in the refusal process?

Thanks, great article, and I know I am off track, but I wanted to explore.

Thank you,

Scott "Big Daddy" T.

July 13, 2011
3:28 am
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First-Eater
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February 22, 2010
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Scott:

It depends if you want to invite conversation or shut it down.

If you don't feel like talking about it, one option is to tell them "We're gluten-free."  This is common enough nowadays that most people understand it and figure you're celiac or allergic.

If someone gets all vegangelical on you, it's OK to be rude to them, just like it's OK to be rude to a religious proselytizer who won't get out of your face.  I don't argue with them unless there are witnesses, because they're never going to change their mind: arguing only matters if you're around other people who might be convinced one way or the other.

If you've read this site long enough you should know both the short and the long versions of the basic arguments, e.g. T. Colin Campbell deliberately misrepresented the results of the actual China Study which are available for download by anyone, and which show that meat is protective while wheat is the primary association with heart disease.  (See: Denise Minger.)  I discuss a lot of the environmental issues in this article...but if you really want to dig into the details, you need to pick up a copy of The Vegetarian Myth.

JS

July 15, 2011
4:47 pm
AmyNVegas
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Powerful article- I will be passing on the link to friends, Thanks! Check out this video I watched last night from YouTube of a presentation of a study done by Stanford.[The Battle of the Diets: Is Anyone Winning (At Losing?)] He was a 25 year vegetarian and was doubting his way of eating after completing the study since the results completely shocked him. Even though Atkins was the diet used in the study, Paleo/Primal was more like what the participants on that plan actually ate when on their own for the year of the study. Even Stanford and Duke know we're right. Wake up world!

July 18, 2011
3:10 pm
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AmyNVegas:

It takes a long time to turn around the entire medical establishment.  Fortunately, we have the freedom to stay healthy by making our own dietary choices. Unfortunately, there is a lot of money to be made off of sick people, so we must be strong and vigilant in defending those freedoms and spreading the knowledge we have.

JS

September 15, 2011
2:19 pm
Don’t Let the
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[...] to continue on the path of real food wavering, please reference J. Stanton’s awesome piece, “You Are a Radical, and So Am I”. If I quoted it, I’d end up just copying and pasting the whole damn thing here, so do us both [...]

October 4, 2011
12:07 am
First, they ignore y
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[...] out this interesting article on the reaction we can can expect as Paleo becomes more popular. Share:Like this:LikeBe the first to [...]

October 6, 2011
7:17 am
Victor Venema
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TruthandJustice: "What I don’t understand is where the idea of subsidies came from in the first place, and how anyone thought it was a good idea to implement."

Food differs from other commodities in that you need it to live. Consequently people will buy it at any price, because they simply need it. Technically called prices of food are inelastic. Strong price fluctuations are undesirable. High food prices and hunger lead to unrests (it was one of the reasons for the Arab spring).

Thus some subsidies, to cause some overproduction and stable prices, seems to be sound policy. The amount of subsidies has become too much, though. And it is bad for public health that much of the subsidies go to grains and sugar and almost none to fruits and vegetables. (At least in the EU.) The reverse would be better.

October 7, 2011
8:32 pm
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First-Eater
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February 22, 2010
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Victor:

Most of US farm policy through the 1970s was dedicated to paying farmers to keep land OUT of production, thus keeping prices stable.  In the 1970s, farm policy shifted dramatically to subsidizing farmers to produce as much as possible via guaranteeing them a price for their crops, with the explicit goal of overproduction (and the unstated goal of shifting profits to processors and middlemen).

See my recent article about commoditization for more on the subject.

JS

October 14, 2011
1:02 pm
First, they ignore y
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[...] is an  interesting article on what to expect as Paleo gains traction. Share:Like this:LikeBe the first to like this post. [...]

October 23, 2011
6:59 pm
anon
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Thank you so much for this post. I've noticed things are not quite right all over the Internet: a lot of bickering, fighting, dissent, spreading of lies and general suspicion directed towards anyone who promotes the paleo diet. I have been banned from a forum this year, left another willingly, and struggle on another in which there should be no problem.... My testimony remains unchanged which is that I tried it all and have done it all diet wise: American junk food, aerobics, veganism, macrobiotics, The Zone, blood type (which I still more or less swear by). I was sick a lot as a kid, had a horrible adolescence and young adulthood meat free, and have spent the better part of 20+ years searching for the truth. People seem to resent this for some reason. When I proclaim how much happier I am eating "right" 😉 people seem annoyed. My story is fairly dramatic in some ways though. I most definitely feel 15 years in to the higher protein diet and going on 7 years of consistent meat eating I have crossed over and am now a radical also. Working on the totally grain free thing, as always.

October 24, 2011
2:12 am
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
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June 5, 2011
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Criticism of the more functional paleo comes from within the paleo community, too, sadly.

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

October 24, 2011
12:03 pm
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February 22, 2010
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anon:

The aggressive reaction I get from challenging received dietary wisdom outside the paleosphere is only exceeded by one topic: the aggressive reaction I get from pointing out that fractional reserve banking is a scam by which a special class of corporations called "banks" have the special legal privilege to create money out of thin air -- and which any of us would go directly to jail for fraud if we practiced ourselves.

JS

October 24, 2011
1:31 pm
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 364
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June 5, 2011
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Don't get me started on the banks ... I have a particular dislike for money and moreso, the pursuit of money.

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

November 19, 2011
10:35 am
Weekly Recap –
Guest

[...] Check out one of J’s older posts, You Are A Radical, And So Am I: Paleo Reaches The Ominous “Stage 3″. Unfortunately, our agrarian state society is so far from our nature, we’re all radicals. And [...]

December 4, 2011
11:48 pm
Economic Establishme
Guest

[...] it here. Related Posts:Szlague Diet success storyVitamin D – Cognitive enhancement & Circadian [...]

December 14, 2011
8:37 am
~pjgh » Blog A
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[...] Stanton noticed that paleo had reached the ominous third stage but who would have thought that the fight would come from vegans? Yes, vegans of all [...]

December 24, 2011
1:11 pm
Neurologists, Addict
Guest

[...] for today, I’m going to set aside my “Paleo Diet vs. The World” argument, and simply consider the foods that almost all parties can acknowledge as [...]

December 24, 2011
1:11 pm
Neurologists, Addict
Guest

[...] for today, I’m going to set aside my “Paleo Diet vs. The World” argument, and simply consider the foods that almost all parties can acknowledge as [...]

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