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"Eat Like A Predator, Not Like Prey": Paleo In Six Easy Steps, A Motivational Guide
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June 13, 2012
3:49 am
sami
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can u reply please

my meal plan.

is there anything wrong with my meal plan?

morning: 1x canned wild salmon, 1x banana, half cucumber
snack: 1x large sweet potatoes, 3x oranges
lunch: 2x grilled chicken breast with 2x apple
snack: 1 cup cottage cheese, 24 almond
dinner: 85g of lamb (trimmed fat) with broccoli and peas

i am 19 male and i go gym 4 times a week and i do a lot of cardio and intense workout. i also take 100% whey protein powder and on occasion Creatine monohydrate.

i want to know if i eat a lot of red meat, fish,vegetables, fruits, whey protein and eggs (not yolk) than isn’t too much protein in my diet also this will have a negative effect on my kidneys which is what worrying me the most.

(i have eliminated all wholegrain foods from my meal plan)

June 13, 2012
11:38 am
cane
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Do you believe in food combination- basically, encourage separating specific foods, eating certain ones together and only in specified meals. is this really matter or is it bullshit?

June 13, 2012
1:27 pm
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 364
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Cane - there is much written about how proteins should not be combined, like cheese and meat in a meal, or eggs and fish in a meal, since the body deals with the different proteins differently.

Personally, I think this is rubbish!

Why? Once we start to abstract food, we lose sight of the reason we eat - we're hungry, we need sustenance and in modern times, we want something flavoursome.

Real food works.

Eat real food in any combination and you will be fulfilled. Our bodies are highly adaptive.

I have written before on this forum how I am in favour of remembering old wisdom and applying it. In recent times, we have old wisdom as very new knowledge of what and what not to do when it comes to food. Religious texts tell us some useful things, something which one of my favourite "real food" authors wrote about here: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2012/02/pork-did-leviticus-117-have-it-right/ ... by way of example.

I guess in a roundabout way I'm coming to something J wrote recently: http://www.gnolls.org/2982/anti-nutritionism-l-canavanine-and-the-limitations-of-n1-self-experimentation/ - biochemical science will tell us everything, but just as in one breath J talks about the limits of abstracting this into nutritionalism yet on the other hand says collective experimentation might well lead us down the wrong path. I err on the side of old wisdom myself. I see biochemistry as an abstraction of understanding the whole; just as nutritionalism is an abstraction of understand the whole.

Eat real food.

That's the bottom line. Quite simply, the principles that guide us are - eat like a predator, eat foods which are capable of being eaten raw and eat food which is not made up of other foods (so, no processed foods ... use real ingredients to make food).

Summary?

While biochemistry might show contra-indications, take that with a pinch of salt. Real food is real food and our ancestors did not have biochemistry. Our ancestors did have collective wisdom passed down generation to generation to generation. That does not mean religious texts should be blindly followed without consideration of their founding - ironically, biochemistry proves or disproves them (see Jaminet, above).

Tools are tools, and we are blessed to have biochemistry to back up old wisdom. I would still be skeptical of some findings, since they are abstracted. We are complex organisms in a complex environment - we are also highly adaptive. Finding the fine line between having to adapt and continuing in our evolutionary footsteps is the key.

Did I say, "just eat real food" yet?

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

June 13, 2012
3:26 pm
sami
Guest

my meal plan.

is there anything wrong with my meal plan?

morning: 1x canned wild salmon, 1x banana, half cucumber
snack: 1x large sweet potatoes, 3x oranges
lunch: 2x grilled chicken breast with 2x apple
snack: 1 cup cottage cheese, 24 almond
dinner: 85g of lamb (trimmed fat) with broccoli and peas

i am 19 male and i go gym 4 times a week and i do a lot of cardio and intense workout. i also take 100% whey protein powder and on occasion Creatine monohydrate.

i want to know if i eat a lot of red meat, fish,vegetables, fruits, whey protein and eggs (not yolk) than isn’t too much protein in my diet also this will have a negative effect on my kidneys which is what worrying me the most.

(i have eliminated all wholegrain foods from my meal plan)

June 13, 2012
3:49 pm
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
Forum Posts: 364
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I'm a cook, Sami - from an ingredient perspective, I don't see anything wrong with your meal plan, nor do I think there is too much protein as this is very much how I eat (without the snacks, though ... and perhaps less activity?).

You can be a bit more imaginative with your salads - drop some olives in, perhaps an avocado? Keeping carbier food to mornings is good, so your banana early on and earlier snack of sweet potato. I do a lot of my activity in the evenings and actually have no issue with some carbs afterwards even towards an hour or two of going to bed! I tend to prefer sweet potato or root vegetables like carrots, swede or turnip, but heavier activity, like after my fencing class, and I like some white potato fried in dripping. It hits the spot after intense mind/nerve/twitch/muscle activity.

Protein prior to activity, carbs afterwards.

Other observations ... why not the yolk from eggs? That the really good bit! Perhaps less sweet fruit? From an omega-3/6 ratio thing, perhaps less nuts? Maybe an avocado instead? Also, let's see some more imagination with veggies and less abstracting into pockets of nutritionalism - eat real food: meat and veg, varying in roots for carb energy at the right time. You might be happy to adjust to a little less protein and more fat as you switch over. Lunch, for example, one breast and an avocado, then an apple? Some nuts are better than others, too. Hazel and macadamia seem really good.

For what you're eating, don't worry about the protein - you're active. Drink lots of mineral water (not filtered), keep hydrated. You might well find, like I have, that protein shakes become unnecessary - it's trendy to do it, but try dropping it out. You've plenty of protein from real food in your diet. Boosting for two heavy nights on the trot, yes, otherwise, just a few BCAAs prior to your workout, water throughout and some carbs afterwards will do just nicely.

Try without the powder and see how you go ...

I'm a cook. Hopefully, someone more scientifically minded will be along to advise on the specifics from a biochemical point of view.

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

June 14, 2012
6:24 am
sami
Guest

thank u very much

your answers are much appreciated.

sami

June 14, 2012
6:48 am
ahmad
Guest

i like your idea of being like a predator-
i am a Muslim and i fast for 30 days it usually begin at dawn and end with sunset i can only eat in the morning from 5:30 and in the evening at 9:30.so i fast almost 15 hours.

last Ramadan i gained a lot of weight which i think it was because of eating too much at once and consuming too much wholegrain food.
this year's Ramadan will be in the next few weeks so i want to know if i can actually lose some belly fat instead of gaining fat.

(i am 17 and i am active)

June 14, 2012
12:12 pm
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sami:

First, it's very difficult to overeat protein.  The reason I emphasize fatty meats is because, as well as containing fat-soluble vitamins like A, D, E, and K, they contain a majority of calories from fat (80/20 hamburger is more like 80% fat by calories!)  Furthermore, as long as you're eating whole foods, your body generally does an excellent job of sensing its own protein requirements -- and you'll find lean meats extremely unappetizing once you've already eaten enough protein.

Second, as you're very active (gym 4x/week, etc.) you'll be able to use a lot more protein than a sedentary couch potato.  Again, if you're eating "too much" protein, you'll know it.  

Third, I disagree with Paul on carb timing.  As I show in this article, whatever we eat for breakfast "programs" our metabolism for the rest of the day.  If we eat lots of carbs for breakfast, our body will tend to burn sugar all day, both leaving us with cravings when our blood sugar drops and resulting in less fat-burning.  In contrast, if we eat lots of fat and protein for breakfast, our body will tend to burn fat all day, a far more desirable outcome.  And there are interesting studies showing that eating exactly the same diet, but with carbs shifted to dinner rather than breakfast and lunch, results in greater weight loss.  

So: I strongly recommend your breakfast remain high in fat and protein, and your carb intake be shifted to late in the day, definitely after lunch, and post-workout if possible.  (Remember that you don't have to eat "breakfast foods" for breakfast: eggs and bananas for dinner and steak for breakfast is perfectly fine.)  Result: you should be able to get through the day without snacking, and the snacks can become part of your meal.

The actual foods you're consuming look fine, though I doubt you're consuming nearly enough of them if you're active!  You'll probably have to eat more of them in general...especially more fat and carbohydrate.  Let your body be your guide on this: eat your planned meal first, and if you're still ravenous for meat, fat, or carb, eat more and plan a larger portion for next time.

Let us know how this works for you!

cane:

Most of the claims for food combining are baloney.  

That being said, bodybuilders who are trying to "cut" down to 6% bodyfat and below put themselves on very specific and difficult nutrient-timing schedules (among other things) in order to achieve that "dried-out" look...but for the rest of us, I don't think it's necessary.

Again, I see benefit to eating carbs late in the day, and I believe it's a bad idea in general to eat "snacks" that don't contain a significant measure of complete protein (explained here) -- but I don't see any evidence that (for instance) eating vegetables with meat is a problem.  In fact, eating meat increases one's stomach acidity and slows GI transit, meaning that anything you eat with meat will be more completely digested!

ahmad:

My biggest recommendation for you will be the same one I made to sami: eat a breakfast high in protein and fat, and eat your carbohydrates during the evening meal.  I suspect that you'll find it much easier to make it through the day.  (In fact, you can start moving your carbs to later in the day right now, even though you don't have to skip lunch until Ramadan...and remember that it's fine to eat "breakfast foods" for dinner and "dinner foods" at breakfast.) 

Please check back in and let us know how this works for you!  

JS

June 14, 2012
12:51 pm
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
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Good call, J. I might just have fallen foul of giving conventional wisdom - one of my colleagues is a gym based body builder and has some very strong opinions on the matter. I've seen a gym, even driven past one, but never been in one ... my comment about keeping carbs to earlier in the day is that conventional wisdom from my gym-going colleague.

I, that is me, tend to be more active in the evenings and as I said, can happily cope with carbs as late as I like and even up to an hour before bed without feeling pogged the next day - after activity is best. We certainly agree on that. Sami can find his own plan.

Getting fatty fruits like avocado and olives into the mix works well for me - if my lunch doesn't have an avocado, a boiled egg and a handful of olives, along with some protein (usually fish) I don't feel right.

I certainly agree that more food is advisable - more quality, too.

Glad you jumped in, pal - I'm a cook. I know about food. Timings, macronutrient ratio and biochemistry is something I happily leave to others to lay down the roadmap.

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

June 14, 2012
2:25 pm
ahmad
Guest

thank u very much J. Stanton - i will try it to see what happens-
i will keep measuring my body fat percentage with Bodyfat Clippers and measuring tape to see if i gone fat.

thanks anyway

June 15, 2012
3:53 am
sunil
Guest

is eating carbs from vegetables such as potato, okra, zucchini, eggplant etc... at late night makes you fat or it depend how active you are.

June 15, 2012
9:56 am
shane
Guest

is this paleo diets works for boxers as i am pro boxer and i train a lot. especially, i do lots of cardio and running. also what is recommendation before a fight(bout) what should i eat? (i used to eat energy bar and nutrient drink before a fight).

any suggestions from you would be helpful.

June 15, 2012
2:57 pm
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(First, a note for my readers: during the 30 days of Ramadan, a Muslim is required to fast from sunup to sundown.  Thus, Ahmad's 5:30 AM and 9:30 PM eating schedule.)

Paul:

There's a lot of propaganda around eating carbs for breakfast, mainly in an attempt to sell "breakfast food" made of processed birdseed.  Also, if your bodybuilder friend is working out in the mornings, that might also explain his particular carb timing...there are dozens of bodybuilding diet protocols, most involving very specific nutrient goals at very specific times of day.

While I believe that the science shows people, on average, will do better when they're eating their carbs later in the day, I agree with you that everyone should experiment to figure out what works best for them.  (And I'm not a breakfast-carbophobe...I just think breakfast should be primarily based on protein and fat, particularly protein.)  However, I feel that "carbs later" is the best starting point for someone new to paleo...particularly when they're going to be fasting for 15 hours a day.

And yes, you're a far better cook than I am!

sunil:

There is some good evidence that late night eating (or eating soon before you go to bed) throws off your circadian rhythms no matter what you're ingesting.  I'd avoid it if I can -- with the exception of a schedule that requires you to work out late in the day, in which case you've got to eat after your workout.

shane:

There's a lot to say about Paleo and training, depending on what weight class you're competing at and how much you typically cut.  Please contact me directly and give me some more details so I can be more helpful.

Meanwhile, yes, it'll absolutely work: I don't know about boxers, but several well-known mixed martial artists have been successful with their own versions of the Paleo diet.

JS 

June 16, 2012
8:08 am
amir
Guest

can u send me a link about diet for six-pack.

June 17, 2012
10:53 am
munashe kaz
Guest

1, is white rice count as processed food?

2, should i eat canned vegetables foods like okra, peas, spinach and chick peas?

3, eating honey before hitting gym

June 17, 2012
1:10 pm
Paul N
Guest

@ Paul Halliday,

In regard to "lactose intolerance" in N. America, I think it is more accurate to say "dairy intolerance", and more specifically, intolerance to A1 type casein.

Anyone who reacts to dairy just assumes they are lactose intolerant, but usually they aren't,

The A1 type casein, produced by Holstein cows, the main dairy breed used here, is less digestible than the A2 produced by Jerseys, Guernseys, goats, sheep and humans. So, many people do fine on goats milk, or jersey/guernsey milk if they can get it.

And, many people do fine on raw milk if they can get it too, the denatured caseins in pastuerised milk being the problem, with denatured A1 being the worst.

In aged cheeses (>6 months) the casein is often sufficiently degraded by the bacterial culture

On the topic of egg yolks and whites, you will find no finer explanation as to why you should *always* eat the yolks, and, possibly, not even bother with the whites, here;
The incredible, edible, egg yolk

Many people who are "intolerant" of eggs, are actually intolerant of eggs whites - it contains lots of antibodies to protect the yolk!

Finally, on the topic of traditional ways to prepare foods, the best compendium I have seen (and own) is "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon. For almost any (real) food you can think of, it tells you how it has traditionally been prepared, and why. It includes things that we paleo people don;t eat, like grains and beans, but lots if stuff that we do. And, importantly, how to do fermented things be it dairy, pickles/sauerkraut, *and* fermented raw fish and meat dishes (which appear in almost every traditional culture).

It pretty much represents the state of the art in food and cooking in before the advent of processed food - anything that is on the paleo diet, is in there.

June 17, 2012
2:06 pm
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Halifax, UK
Gnoll
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Paul N – you've demonstrated exactly what the problem is with dairy. I really have struggled to understand how a people descended from northern Europeans who exhibit little issue with dairy have such an issue with it only a couple of hundred years later. Perfect!

How are northern Americans with bison, buffalo and so on?

Actually, this is a perfect presentation of a principle that I hold very dear – localism. Or, "what grows together goes together", and that means us! We are as much a part of our environment as the things that we see within it.

We are evolved to eat a certain way, yet adapted (and adapt very quickly) to our environment. Across Europe, we've had certain breeds of cattle, sheep, goats and other ruminants for thousands of years. We've become accustomed. In a very short period (the last couple of hundred years), some of us have moved half way across the world and found new breeds. Do native Americans (is that the right term?) have issue with "local" dairy?

This is one of the issues, if you like, that I have had with Paleo – that's capitalised. I have often looked at paleo books and wondered just how tuned it is to modern US habits. That was the key motivator for my own food blog – paleo, but how we over here eat. 

I will buy the book you mentioned – it looks "right up my street". Again, being a northern European, we have a strong tradition of thrifty nose to tail eating and everything in between, and a strong tradition of bottling and preserving by means of an air-tight seal or by fermenting. I am very taken with Scandinavian methods, something that is exhibited strongly in northern British culture – fermentation really is nature's little miracle, and now we've come through the Ice Age (:D) it's something we can embrace.

Funnily enough, I have an excellent book from Victorian times (turn of the 19th/20th century) which has all manner of recipes in, including curry, but most interestingly, a strong section on "food as medicine".

Neolithic eating might well have stabbed us in the side, but processed food is most definitely kicking us now we're down!

Fun chatting, pal – hope to see you around.

Living in the Ice Age
http://livingintheiceage.pjgh.co.uk

June 17, 2012
11:25 pm
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amir:

I'll repeat what I said in another thread: The "six pack problem" is way beyond the purview of a single comment.  Furthermore, it's difficult to do without unnatural dietary modifications that are neither "paleo" nor healthy: see the classic article You, too, can't have a body like this.  

That being said, the bodybuilders and weight-class athletes (e.g. powerlifters, MMA) have you covered on that score.  Look into cyclical ketogenic diets like Jamie Lewis' Apex Predator Diet (warning: his site is extremely NSFW), or do a search for terms like "cyclical ketogenic diet", "protein-sparing modified fast", or "Velocity Diet".

munashe kaz:

"1, is white rice count as processed food?"

White rice is OK in moderation.  Root vegetables like potatoes, carrots, etc. have far more nutrients for the calories, though, so I encourage it mainly for variety (sometimes you just can't eat any more potatoes, carrots, or sweet potatoes) and for people doing intense training (e.g. MMA, Crossfit) who need the extra carbs.

"2, should i eat canned vegetables foods like okra, peas, spinach and chick peas?"

Fresh is best, but canned is better than none at all.

"3, eating honey before hitting gym"

I don't recommend it unless you're in a competition that day and need the extra edge.  The purpose of training is to increase your body's ability to burn stored energy (glycogen and fat), not just burn existing blood sugar.  Then, when you absolutely must be at your maximum performance, you can down some simple carbohydrate some time before your event: but you don't want to do it RIGHT before, as you'll still be digesting it, which is bad.  30 minutes to an hour before seems about right for simple sugars like honey, more for complex carbs.

Paul N:

It's important to note that lactose intolerance, dairy intolerance, and dairy allergy are very different things!  

Lactose intolerance doesn't depend on the source of the dairy: lactose is lactose.  (A note for my other readers: cheese contains little to no lactose.  It's basically 100% casein and milkfat.)  

In contrast, dairy allergy is a specific antibody reaction to a specific protein in dairy, usually (but not always) casein.  The source of the dairy can sometimes (though not often) affect this.

Dairy intolerance includes any number of systemic reactions to dairy proteins, including inability to digest them, and can frequently be addressed with a change to raw milk, goat milk, etc.

The A1 vs. A2 casein issue is interesting, and I don't know if there's any research on how it affects allergies and intolerances.  There are, however, some very interesting correlations with heart disease and a reduced (AFAIK) exorphin response.

In other words, people have to experiment and see what works best for them -- which is why I place "Experiment with eliminating dairy" towards the end, and distinguish dairy fat (unlikely to cause problems) from dairy protein.

And yes, egg yolks are wonderful, which is why I say "Always eat the yolks".  I missed the part where sami was eating egg whites, to which I respond "Absolutely not!  The yolk is the whole point of eating an egg!"  So sami, if you're still reading this -- eat your egg yolks.  

I've heard great things about "Nourishing Traditions", but I admit I haven't read it yet.

Paul:

There's no such thing as "local" dairy to North America: cattle and goats were brought over by Europeans -- and while bison were plentiful, they were never tamed and milked.  Most Native Americans are truly lactose-intolerant.  And as I mentioned just a couple months ago, N=1 doesn't tell us whether something is good to eat in the long term.  

That being said, I'm not dogmatic about dairy, as you well know...but I understand enough about the biochemistry and prevalence of intolerance to be suspicious of casein.

JS

June 18, 2012
5:52 am
Beate Acker
Guest

This is a great article. We have always felt that thousands of years of evolution didn't bring us to a point to be able to survive on the diets we are on now. Back when we were hunting we felt the best when we ate wild game, and we understood what it meant to put meat on the table. We will work on reducing or eliminating all the foods you talked about, (sugar, milk, oils, etc.) and start to strengthen our mind, health, and stamina back. Thank you.

June 18, 2012
3:15 pm
jamal
Guest

should i follow paleo diet?
i am quite skinny guy and i want to get big but the food that i currently eat did not seem to increase my body size.

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